Scout Notes – Internationals – Wednesday

FanDuel for example list Alonso and Moses as midfielders.

Sky and FanDuel list Sanchez and Firmino as forwards.

if they do this then I think they also need to look at defensive midfielders differently and that would change the game too much i fear

I can't imagine many managers welcoming this prospect

Screw that, one of the joys of Fantasy Football is exploiting the emergence of an out of position player before the masses catch on. The game's fine.

for all we know 4 at the back could be back to being the norm next season

Im amazed that everyone has copied Conte this season (although I guess not when you see how successful it has been)

Only out and out strikers are considered right now, right?
Sanchez doesn't always play in that role, like when Giroud is playing or Welbeck.
As for wing backs. Classifying them as premium defenders rather than MFs looks good. They do add a different dimension to the game.

Maybe if the player is originally a defender (RB/LB), then they should be classified as a defender. If they are a mid being used as a wingback, then they should be classified as midfielders? Alonso being a defender and Moses a midfielder is correct then? The likes of Rose or Walker shouldn't be classified as midfielders, they're still defenders. and will occassionally be fullbacks in a switch back to a back 4

4 or 5 defender formations would become even less viable than they already are. With less good defenders available, almost every team on FFS would be 3-4-3 and 3-5-2. We need great defenders to challenge the consensus of playing 7 midfielders/forwards.

For me , all wing backs should continue to be in the defenders category but the prices can be higher.

I think Alonso, Moses, Rose and Walker have to be mids next season. Which would kill them as assets next season. The interesting thing will be what they do with Valencia, Coleman etc. Not as obvious wing backs but have played as them on occasion. There's definatwly a stronger case for them to remain as defenders though, which would heighten their appeal next season, particularly if Everton and man u switch to wing backs full time.

I don't think it's a good idea - just raise the price of these defenders. Reclassifying Alonso, Walker, etc. leaves a very small pool of premium defenders to choose from

No, Walker, Rose, Alonso are full-backs, so they should be classified as defenders. If they should cost more, that is another thing. Sanchez does not always play as a striker, so he should stay as a midfielder. The majority of games Firmino always leads the line, so he should be classified as a forward.

Milner is the interesting one. Surely he'll be a defender but klopp may well buy someone anyway

Would much rather see them as higher priced defenders rather than extra midfielders; give us a reason to play formations other than 3-4-3 and 3-5-2. The goal of the fpl team should be to make as many players viable as possible. Wing backs who get 7-8 attacking returns per season are not going to get picked up by anyone as midfielders unless they're priced at 4.5-5m at which point we might have one as bench fodder. The fact that many teams switch between 3-5-2 and 4-4-2 with the wing backs reverting to full backs amplifies this point further.

No, I guess FPL optimises for squad workability which is good. If this is an issue, simply adjust relative pricing.

No because it would reduce flexibility of your squad. IF they stick with 15 players but say 4 defenders, 4 mids and 2 wingbacks as your slots it massively reduces flexibility. Part of the skill is finding those OOP players e.g. Alonso before other players jump on the bandwagon.

the other vital thing FPL and the game's organisers need to remember is...

If it aint broke then dont fix it

Meddling with the game too much is a sure fire way to alienate the hardcore fans

Wingbacks are defenders and should stay the same. Alonso should be a midfielder though because he's played there all season.

What does the likes of FIFA, PES and Football Manager class them as? I'd go with that 😉 In all seriousness wing backs for me fall under DEF not MIDs. Regards to likes of Sanchez and Firmino is more complicated as they can play diff positions for cluba and country. I think best way to handle this is to adjust the prices for these OOP players so it reflects their value more i.e. more expensive. Just my 2 cents 🙂

I think as standard there should be at least 4 players in a team getting Cleans sheet bonuses. This then gives better balance for BPS and team structures, etc.

As mentioned above if this turned to only 3 Per team (I realise not all teams adopt it but still) then it will template the defence a bit and restrict formation options.

Wingback should be defenders, just riced accordingly if they are immense. I'm sure worse teams play 3-5-2 but their assets aren't as high scoring o we're not complaining about them. if priced right they should stay as defenders. looking 6m+ for most wingback from decent sides I'd suggest.

Great. Another advantage scratched off.

Nearly all full-backs are attacking these days. Just have a separate full-back bracket at the most and accept that some are more attacking than the others. Like midfielders.

I hope not because recognising OOP prospects is a key weapon for those who study the game.

Having said that it would also mean we would be in the know when teams ditch 3-5-2 and revert to four at the back (usually do when results turn against them)...at which point we would sell whilst other might hold.

I think FF will keep it very basic on a 4-4-2 to avoid everyone loading up on a player.

From my 15 odd year experience of playing the game, you will generally get a player marked as a defender and if they play a certain amount of games as a different position, then they will be reclassified.

What are Gabi owners doing?

Why did he have to get injured... Why!?

With attacking full-backs like Clyne & Bertrand getting into equally good positions as the better wing-backs it's probably unwise to reclassify the latter. Next season's pricing can hopefully reflect each individual's productivity, so that should be enough.

Think it's been something we've been aware of - favouring defenders who can get assists/goals has been on our radar - but wing backs like Alonso and Rose particularly playing a huge portion of the game in the opponent's half being clearly different to the likes of Toby/Big Wes last year has been a real trend.

I can definitely see some attempts at that incorporated, and we have seen players moving positions - see Brunty as a defender this year - but I think it becomes really subjective and difficult to decide who fits in to what bracket, so I can see why they haven't done anything yet. For instance, I think if you then tried to implement it, you'd have lots of questions. Would you only make midfielders out of defenders playing for teams in 3-5-2? What about Coleman/Baines, who are in 4-4-2? Same example: Coleman bombs forward but Baines doesn't tend to go as far up the pitch - would you reclassify Coleman but not Baines? How would you decide? You could even use the example of Nyom for WBA - rampages forward, but also fills the RB slot defensively.

So yeah, definitely some issues at hand to be worked out and clearly explained if they were to make that step.

For now, I'm happy with occasional 21 pointers dropping into my gameweeks, and more fool the people who don't own these amazing FPL players.

Defenders, but priced accordingly. If they were midfielders we probably wouldn't touch many of them with a barge pole.

I think reclassification would hinder the fun. With 5 midfielders, picking from defensive midfielders would be incredibly boring, while shoehorning the quality attacking midfielders turned forwards and original forwards into three spots would be painful.

If a forward is slightly midfieldery, i.e. Sanchez/Firmino, keep him as a midfielder. As for wing backs, a wing back is a defender in my unwritten and won't ever be written book. Again, more fun. Moses is the new Valencia, so therefore a defender, and also the antithesis of Bale (interesting one to place is Gareth!).

I think wingbacks vs mids playing as forwards are different debates.

I reckon, keep wingbacks listed as defenders but up their prices.

As for the likes of Firm and Sanchez, I think it should come down to what position they play most over a season. Firm undoubtedly needs to be reclassified. Sanchez is a bit more of a mixed bag, fair argument he should be reclassified but he has played on the wing a good deal (not had a chance to look up where he's played most, bit swamped). That argument is slightly moot anyway, seeing as he'll most likely be playing elsewhere next season.

I thought about this. Perhaps there should be no positions at all. Just price differences.

Perhaps the most defensive players should have a big D next to them and get full CS points, and wingbacks and very defensive mid players have a lil D that signifies they get half points for CS.

It doesnt really matter, as long as the players points potential is reflected in the price, imo

We say this every year and FPL continues to keep it the way it is.

If they change the classification of wingbacks and players like Firmino and King the game won't appeal as much, hence they will likely keep it again.

Would just ruin them as options and take them out the game. Like Moses who is a crap option

Nah, just jack up their prices as defenders.

As for OOP mids up front: if they play more than half the league games specifically in a forward position, change them for next season. If they appear a few times in the absence or injury of a proper striker, don't. Easy. It might rule them out of being a good pick next season, but then you shift them back if they do. The 1-season lag in classification is where FPL managers make their mark - if you're paying attention you will profit; if you're not you'll fall behind or waste your teams slots. And that's ok.

Definitly no for me.

You gave an example of Alonso and Moses and i think it is a perfect example why it would be bad if they were both defenders. Imagine a situation where 2 Chelsea defenders and 2 mid get injured, in that situation Alonso goes to play in back 3 or back 4, and Moses will fill up in the advanced mid role. Now, imagine having Moses classified as defender playing in a Willian or Pedro role while Azpi covers in RWB.

Situations like this should be solved with price, putting a high price on a defender who will play as a wingback, and putting a low price on a mid who will play as a wingback.

This sounds like research on behalf of Fpl.

Think its fine as it is tbh

I think we should be able to pick a squad of 15 goalies if we fancy.

I could see positives in promoting holding mids: perhaps 2 for a clean sheet and higher BAPS for CBI.
BUT you could sub-categorise players all day and, it would destroy the fun IMO!
4-3-3: Front line as strikers? Mane striker, Lallana mid - Nope...
4 man defence diamond: Cedric and Bertrand are the highest pushing FBs due to being the only players providing width.

I say Moses and Alonso both expensive defenders. Fundamentally should be (generally) weighted 5.5 CB - 6.5 FB/WB...

Rose/Walker situation is tricky because Poch could switch to a back 4 at any time next season meaning we have a very limited selection of Spurs defenders next season if FPL do change their classification to mids. The same situation happened at Liverpool a couple seasons ago where Rogers was using Can and other reverse OOP mids as defenders. Can you imagine only being able to choose Toby or Vertonghen as Spurs defence? They need to reclassify Dier as well back to a defender, was a silly change making him a mid.

Honestly if FPL knew what is best then they'll just keep the wingbacks as defenders but ramp up the price tag to £7m like they did with Chelsea defenders and Baines/Coleman in past seasons.

Sanchez is tricky though as he drops into the wing whenever a striker is available so ideally would like him to stay as a mid.

Firmino needs to be a striker though, it's too easy to select a 5 man midfield than it is for 3 strikers and having to choose between having Firmino or Sanchez to occupy that vital 1/3 striker position in our teams I would rather just ignore Firmino.

Alonso will be a midfielder next season, though as someone else put it, half the fun of FPL is exploiting the OOP players.

Maybe the points for a game should be awarded based on their starting position. Classification can remain the same but if someone starts OOP they accrue points for that game based on that position rather than where FPL think they play.

defenders should only be reclassified if they undergo a Bale-like push forward. Just make them more expensive defenders - it makes the game far more interesting than having a bloated midfield.

I'm with most... Keep wing backs as defenders but priced accordingly.

Most of this season I've been playing 4-3-3 with Alonso/Baines/Coleman/Mcauley at one point even going 5-2-3 with more expensive wing backs.... Sometimes it works, other weeks less so... But it opens up options when you need to play a but differently.

If WB's become midfielders our pool. Of players to chose from will shrink and template teams would stick much faster and longer.

About Sanchez/Hazard/Antonio... If they get reclassified, will they become cheaper? Will have to, right?

I think it might be worth considering a new hybrid position in team selection....
I.E. Perhaps maybe removing 1 traditional midfield position position and 1 traditiional defender position and replacing it with 2 wing back positions.
THat would look like the following in terms of overal team format:
Goaly1 Goaly2
Defender1 Defender2 Defender3 Defender4
WingBack1 MidF1 MidF2 MidF3 MidF4 WingBack2
For1 For2 For3

The scoring system would have to be adjusted for the new role.

Anyway, I'll jump off my swaying pedestal, before I fall off, as I contemplate options around the Sanchez Mid/Forward hybrid role which then presents itself.

No. Wingbacks are defenders, always have been.

Alonso, Walker, Rose etc are defenders. Moses has spent his entire career as a midfielder, not a wingback, prior to this season hence his status as a midfielder.

A wingback in a 352 is still a defender.

You can't punish a player because he has good stamina and can bomb forward all match as well as get back into defensive position as quick as possible.

You also can't punish a player because of what positions he takes up in a match due to tactics.

If they reclassify Alonso or Walker as midfielders they may as well reclassify Kante and Wanyama as defenders because guess who covers the space when the former bomb forward?

I don't see the problem. Market forces dictate defenders who do a lot of attacking automatically start to become more expensive during the season.

I agree with most here that we have the easiest and most fun arrangement now. Prices just need to reflect attacking returns. Taking WB's into midfield would reduce the defender player pool too much (Spurs a good example above), and midfield would be swamped with poor picks. It's not like wingbacks are dominating the game (Cahill currently top defender).

I'm concerned with the defensive midfielder position, a huge part of the player pool that is unselectable (including Kante, who many consider the best player in the league). Splitting mids into DM and AM with 2pt cs bonus for DM and none for AM would level that playing field a little - along with different bonus weightings. Kante has only picked up one bonus point, Wanyama has 3 from the game he scored the winner. And they've had immense seasons.

You should still be free to choose as many of each as you like to fill the five slots but it would expand the player pool and reduce templates. I don't think it would overly complicate matters and would benefit casual and hardcore players alike.

Surely a larger selection of viable midfielders would be more of an improvement than shrinking the defensive pool?

Absolutely not!! One of the challenges in fpl is doing your lineup research and finding an advantage that others may over look.

Also if you where to have different classifications for every single positional possibinility it would lead to a clutter and nonsensical game, never mind the countless rules disputes that would arise!!

Absolutely nonsense!

If everyone is well priced, it doesn't matter. I think classifying them as midfielders makes picking defence even more boring. There would be so few players to pick from.

Having expensive and cheap defenders with different roles is good for the game.

I think it is fairly simple, wing backs are defenders. Midfielders/Wingers who sometimes lead the attack are not strikers .

If you play 25+ (or something like that) games in a position that is what you should be classified as next season.

Milner - Defender
Moses - Defender
Firmino - Striker

No need to complicate the game, just an adjusted price for these players as always happens anyway is enough. The same way baines and ivanoivic used to be very expensive defenders as they scored more attacking points next season so should the likes of alonso Coleman and walker

A bit disconnected, but this HT got me wondering. In fantasy MLB there are almost always 1-2 slots called "Utility" for hitters in which you can take someone from any position in the field and put them in that slot. Maybe FPL could create a similar designation, perhaps with a purchase price cap for the position, in which any player could go there -- a cheap forward, uber defender, etc. The scoring would be based on whichever position you bought the player.

Not sure how the wing backs could slot in there, though.

Why does it matter? These players are available to anyone to avail of if they so please.

McAuley has probably spent more time in the opponents box this season than Kante. It's the respective teams tactics and we as fpl managers are adopting these tactics of attacking defenders into our teams.

Changing their positions in the fantasy game diminishes their appeal. If Rose and Walker become mids, then we only have 3 options into Spurs defence as opposed 5. Same across all teams that employ these formations. Means we have less choice to diversify as managers.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I just don't see why they should have their positions changed. It isn't creating an unfair advantage in any way, shape or form

For me FPL must listing the players according 2 facts.
1)Players who played last year in PL,
2)Players who are going to participate for the first time in the PL,or players who had played in PL and should play again.
The listing for players of 1 should be decided by the position and the role they had last year(for example Alonso as a midfielder in 17/18,DLuiz as a defender in 17/18).The listing for players of 2 should be decided by the position and the role they had last year in their previous team.

Just get the pricing right. Terry, Vidic and Baines have all been 7.5m in the past - Alonso should be at least 7.0 next season.

I'd like the fantasy 11 to better match a real 11.
Squad of:
2 x GK
3 x CB
3 x FB
2 x DM
3 x AM
2 x ST
Starting 11 must field 1 x GK, 2 x FB, min 2 x CB, min 1 x DM, min 1 x AM, min 1 x ST.

Wing backs, as described above, would be in the FB category.

DMs scoring similar to CBs.

Keep them as defenders. Remember a couple years ago when people said that they should reclassify #10s into their own category bc they were the high scoring players at the time? No one talks about that anymore.

Tactics come and go. Overreacting and changing classifications after a single season of prevalent 3 at the back is unwise.