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The Trouble With Harry

Over the past few weeks, and particularly in advance of Gameweek 5, Harry Kane has dominated a raft of underlying statistics. Although this has only resulted in one league points bonanza, against Everton in Gameweek 4, he is still seen by many as a key rival to other premium heavy hitters – including Romelu Lukaku, Sergio Aguero, Alvaro Morata and Gabriel Jesus. He is also still considered the frontrunner in the race for the golden boot.

With his rivals proving more consistent, in the case of Lukaku, or more explosive, in the case of Aguero, it is perhaps surprising that Kane is still in so many teams.

Such is his allure that some have been more willing to part with the Manchester United frontman than the Spurs striker, who has also scored a brace against Borussia Dortmund in September, as well as a goal against Malta for England.

Time and again those enticing underlying statistics are presented by his backers. But if we delve into the data further, the choice between Kane and his rivals is not so clear cut.

In fact, the statistics suggest that other strikers could outscore, or at the very least closely challenge, Kane over the course of the season. Considering that Kane is still 0.8m more expensive than his most expensive rival, Lukaku, and would have cost 1m more at the start of the season, the stats suggest we should not just assume that Kane is the best pick in the league.

Last season’s hangover

A lot of the support for Kane is understandably based on his form last year, when he finished as the top scorer in the league with 29 goals. This was impressive in a side that scored the highest number of goals (86), which was more than any side has managed in the league since Manchester City and Liverpool both scored over 100 goals in the 2013/14 season.

However, Lukaku finished only four goals behind Kane, playing in a significantly less creative and threatening team than Kane. Spurs scored 24 more goals than Everton in the league – a huge number, almost 40% of Everton’s total goals scored.

In addition, seven of Kane’s goals arrived in the last two games of the season, “freak” games in many ways as Spurs racked up 13 goals against Leicester and Hull. Had Kane not scored those seven goals, Lukaku would have finished top scorer, and would we really be so keen on Kane as a result?

The heavy hitters’ teams

It is also important to take into account Lukaku’s move from Everton to Manchester United.

He is now playing at the team that is currently joint top of the league and that has scored the joint highest number of goals (16) across five matches.

Further options exist from Manchester City’s frontline, with Aguero and Jesus already netting nine goals between them and looking much more settled after a season under Pep Guardiola.

Chelsea have been less prolific but are the reigning champions and Alvaro Morata seems to fit well into their line-up and have scored eight goals in total.

Spurs have only scored seven and look to be struggling after their exploits of last season.

While the “Wembley effect” can be overrated, it cannot be discounted. Spurs were absolutely incredible at White Hart Lane last season, going unbeaten in the Premier League. It was inevitable that losing the home comforts of the Lane for a new stadium would lead to an adjustment period, which is exactly what has happened with points already dropped at home in each of the three games Spurs have played at Wembley to Chelsea, Burnley and Swansea.

Until Spurs are fully settled in at Wembley, Kane seems a prohibitively expensive luxury at 12.5m, especially considering that Christian Eriksen and Dele Alli are outscoring him for 2.8m and 3m less respectively. Even from Kane’s incredible season last year, Alli outscored him and Eriksen was only six points behind, primarily due to the frontman’s injuries.

Shots versus big chances

As far as this season is concerned, Kane has had the most shots of anyone in the league, with 32.  That’s eight more than Lukaku, and at least 15 more than Aguero, Jesus and Morata.  Of Kane’s 32 shots, 23 have been in the box, which beats Lukaku by five and Aguero, Jesus and Morata by at least nine. Kane has also had the highest number of shots on target in the league with 11, though importantly this the same number as Lukaku despite Kane having eight more total shots.

This suggests that Kane is the most threatening striker in the league – right?

Well, not necessarily. The number of big chances is key when it comes to translating shots into goals. And when it comes to big chances, Kane has had fewer than each of Lukaku, Aguero, Jesus and Morata.

Lukaku is currently peerless when it comes to big chances, having seen nine come his way in just five matches. That’s more than Aguero and Jesus, who have seen six each, and Morata, who has had five. Considering that Kane had the most big chances in the league last season, with 28 from 30 appearances, this clearly demonstrates Lukaku’s potential, with big chances coming his way this season at almost double the rate of Kane last season.

However, Kane is languishing behind each of his rivals as heavy hitting strikers, and is level with Joselu and Rooney with just four big chances in five games. Kane has scored just one of those big chances, and it’s important to remember that one of his goals was actually a cross.

The result is that Kane’s goal conversion is only 6.3%. This is an astonishingly low figure for a player of Kane’s calibre – last season he stuck away his chances at a rate of 26.4%.

This season, in comparison, Aguero has a conversion rate of 29.4%, Jesus’ is 26.7%, Lukaku’s is 20.8% and Morata’s is 18.8%. These conversion rates for Jesus and Lukaku are similar to their performances last season (29.2% and 22.7% respectively), although Aguero has seen a big jump this season from a 14.4% conversion rate last season.

This suggests it’s no surprise that Kane is already three goals behind Lukaku and Aguero in the golden boot race.

Conclusion

So, does this mean that we can completely discount Kane?

There is obviously a risk in doing so, as Kane remains one of the most explosive players in the league. However, Lukaku, Aguero and Jesus, in particular, are all capable of similarly explosive performances, for significantly less money than Kane. Sticking with Kane through this barren patch is certainly hurting many managers, particularly those who insist on captaining him each week due to the high number of shots he is taking – and ignoring the lack of big chances.

I have avoided Kane all season, with Lukaku and Jesus in his place (and a Spurs double up in midfield with Eriksen and Alli), which has done me well so far. Until we see a greater indication of both Spurs and Kane hitting form, not least at Wembley, Kane will be staying well out of my team regardless of how many shots he keeps taking.

161 Comments Post a Comment
  1. J0E
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • Has Moderation Rights
    • 14 Years
    6 years, 7 months ago

    This is very persuasive - especially the big chances stats.

    Sticking with or ditching Kane is the key issue us Kane owners have to face this week.

    1. J0E
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • Has Moderation Rights
      • 14 Years
      6 years, 7 months ago

      Article title is one for Alfred Hitchcock fans by the way - one of his best films.

      1. Doosra - ☭DeclanMyGenius…
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 14 Years
        6 years, 7 months ago

        I am going to give this one The Birds. 😉

        1. Werkself
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 10 Years
          6 years, 7 months ago

          Kane, Lukaku, Aguero - it's giving me Vertigo...

    2. JJCF_96
      • 7 Years
      6 years, 7 months ago

      Are you still planning on Wildcarding on GW 7 Jonty?

      1. J0E
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • Has Moderation Rights
        • 14 Years
        6 years, 7 months ago

        Yep, think so. Only issues currently are replacing Ake and whether to ditch Kane for Aguero...rest of the team is fine.

        1. Powell
          • 8 Years
          6 years, 7 months ago

          Hi Jonty. Is there a Scoutcast tonight?

        2. The Moe
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 9 Years
          6 years, 7 months ago

          Where can I leave a question for the Scoutcast tonight :)?

          1. J0E
            • Fantasy Football Scout Member
            • Has Moderation Rights
            • 14 Years
            6 years, 7 months ago

            See Hot topics

    3. Gallzaa
      • 8 Years
      6 years, 7 months ago

      The article makes good points however I feel that there still isn't enough data to go on. Kane will score at least 20 goals this season and on another day he could have had a hat trick against Swansea. Are we forgetting what happened last year when he blanked twice at home to Burnley and Hull consecutively?

      1. Wetdream
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 9 Years
        6 years, 7 months ago

        The only data you need is Kane has scored 2 goals in 5 premier league games and one of those was a cross !! Plus he is the most expensive player in the game at 12.5m !

        1. Desperately Seeking Dusan
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 12 Years
          6 years, 7 months ago

          So the data of the previous 76 PL games doesn't matter? Just the last 5?

          1. Garlana
            • 9 Years
            6 years, 7 months ago

            Alot of the games included their home fixtures at white Hart lane where spurs were pretty dominant.

      2. G-Whizz
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • Has Moderation Rights
        • 6 Years
        6 years, 7 months ago

        Not forgetting, but after a 5 week stint in my team while I watch others out perform him means it's time to go 'Arry!

    4. Pooodle
      • 14 Years
      6 years, 7 months ago

      Cheers Jonty!

    5. Whits
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 7 Years
      6 years, 7 months ago

      I'm on WC and your scoutcast has persuaded me to part company with Kane. This is me at the moment. Verdict?

      Fabianski, Elliot, Mee, Kolasinac, Otemendi, Naughton, Salah, Alli, Atsu, Carrol, C-Moting, Aguero, Lukaku, Morata.

  2. Klopp's Kids
    • 10 Years
    6 years, 7 months ago

    Was considering on owning Alli and Eriksen instead even before the season started because it provided good value BUT I thought Kane would be the option I'd always want to captain. The Wembley effect seems real.

    With Aguero and Lukaku emerging as possibly even better choices, it may be time to reconsider. This small decision has cost me many points but I'm waiting a couple more games and may wildcard in GW8 once I see Coutinho, Hazard and Sanchez play more.

  3. Best Captains GWK 6-20
    MTPockets
      6 years, 7 months ago

      Interesting. My Kane -> Aguero reasoning centres on captaincy vs using funds elsewhere. Only 2 weeks - GW11/16 - where Kane definitely trumps Lukaku/Aguero (or Jesus). Could be worth switching back when we get there:

      GW6: Aguero (CPL)
      GW7: Lukaku (CPL)
      GW8: Aguero (STO) / Kane (BOU)
      GW9: Aguero (BUR)
      GW10: Aguero (wba)
      GW11: Kane (CPL)
      GW12: Lukaku (NEW)
      GW13: Lukaku (BHA)
      GW14 Lukaku (wat) / Aguero (SOT)
      GW15: Aguero (WHU) / Kane (wat)
      GW16: Kane (STO)
      GW17: Lukaku (BOU) / Kane (BHA)
      GW18: Lukaku (wba)
      GW19: Aguero (BOU)
      GW20: Lukaku (BUR)

      1. Klopp's Kids
        • 10 Years
        6 years, 7 months ago

        Great post mate

        1. Ajax Hamsterdam
          • 9 Years
          6 years, 7 months ago

          +1 well done for taking the time to do that 🙂

      2. jimmy.floyd
        • 7 Years
        6 years, 7 months ago

        What about Aguero rotation risk?

        1. Ajax Hamsterdam
          • 9 Years
          6 years, 7 months ago

          He'll still score points imo

        2. MTPockets
            6 years, 7 months ago

            It's a risk for sure.

          • william prunier
            • 8 Years
            6 years, 7 months ago

            Not to mention his injury record

        3. The Hindu Monkey
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 9 Years
          6 years, 7 months ago

          superb work

        4. Grounderz
          • 12 Years
          6 years, 7 months ago

          This is done based on paper, but not based on individual/team form. It's a good reference point but not entirely reliable.

          1. MTPockets
              6 years, 7 months ago

              Absolutely. It's just my own rationale for picking 2 of the 3 today (because I think having all 3 isn't an efficient use of £).
              I basically don't want to spend 11.5-12.5m on someone I won't captain.

          2. Individual
            • 10 Years
            6 years, 7 months ago

            Great work. I think it's gotta be Kaku/Jesus for me then, with Alli for Spurs who also has a half-decent away record for the next two games at least.

          3. IRBOX ⚽
            • 7 Years
            6 years, 7 months ago

            The thing is, a world class striker can score a brace or hat-trick against any team. Kane has the ability to do this, followed by Aguero and to a lesser extent Lukaku. I agree they look like the best options on paper, but this is real world football and the top strikers always have an explosion imminent

            1. MTPockets
                6 years, 7 months ago

                I don't disagree. But my setup means choosing 2 of 3 big hitters, and that's where I am atm. Could obviously be wrong.

              • Pieterke30
                • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                • 7 Years
                6 years, 7 months ago

                Agreed

                For me it's still Kane > Aguero > Jesus/Lukaku

                So if you're getting two, Kane and Aguero.

              • DantheManinaPan
                • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                • 10 Years
                6 years, 7 months ago

                Not only that, Kane's fixtures are still excellent for that period (for scoring goals at least) - the only week I WOULDN'T want to captain him is Vs Man Utd away in GW10.

                His underlying stats are also better than all other premium strikers so far, despite his misfortune, only scoring 2 so far

            2. Cok3y5murf
              • 7 Years
              6 years, 7 months ago

              First of all, planning captains so much in advance merely based on fixtures and completely disregarding changes in form, injuries, suspensions, etc. is just pointless. You've wasted your time.

              Secondly, it appears that you currently have Aguero and Lukaku. So for the next 2 weeks, you have the following:

              GW6: Aguero (c) (CPL), Lukaku (sou)
              GW7: Aguero (che), Lukaku (c) (CPL)

              Now since you're going simply based on fixtures alone, a person owning Kane and Lukaku would have the following:

              GW6: Kane (c) (whu), Lukaku (sou)
              GW7: Kane (hud), Lukaku (c) (CPL)

              So Lukaku is basically in both combinations, so he's ruled out. Are you saying those combinations of Aguero would outscore those combinations of Kane? (since you're only talking about fixtures). Kane still gets points when he's not being captained and so does Aguero.

              1. MTPockets
                  6 years, 7 months ago

                  Fwd planning has done me ok in the past. Future - who knows.
                  I'm saying from GW6-10 inc Aguero/Lukaku may outscore Kane/Lukaku, due to captaincy. Longer term fixtures was just for info - I referred to GW11/16 so beyond that will need reassessment.
                  There are obviously other combos/players and if you prefer them go for them.

              2. Forget Special, I am the ON…
                • 12 Years
                6 years, 7 months ago

                One of the reason I got all 3 of them in my team last week 🙂

              3. Bouncebackability
                • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                • 14 Years
                6 years, 7 months ago

                Great work.

                One slight issue though, would never captain Lukaku away at WBA. May not captain Lukaku away full stop to be honest

                I guess Mane / Arsenal / Chelsea may influence captains too

                1. MTPockets
                    6 years, 7 months ago

                    GW18 is a long way ahead and will likely switch around before then. Just simplified info for my own reference (and justification to be fair).

                2. Lanley Staurel
                  • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                  • 13 Years
                  6 years, 7 months ago

                  I reached the exact same conclusion. If you spend that much you need to captain him. Its a difficult decision but at least this logic offers me some comfort.

                3. Dino
                  • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                  • 14 Years
                  6 years, 7 months ago

                  What about auto cap if kun gets rested and what about lukaku diminished chances of big hauls now that he has lost pens?

                  1. MTPockets
                      6 years, 7 months ago

                      Not impossible. Unsure if Lukaku's off pens (absent Mata), but frankly there's no way I'm selling him atm so there's definite bias in my own appraisal of 2 of 3.

                  2. Wetdream
                    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                    • 9 Years
                    6 years, 7 months ago

                    Just the article and comment I needed.

                  3. Limbo
                    • 13 Years
                    6 years, 7 months ago

                    Interesting post. Thanks for adding to this.

                  4. G-Whizz
                    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                    • Has Moderation Rights
                    • 6 Years
                    6 years, 7 months ago

                    I had started a similar plan to yours after reading this article from last year:
                    http://www.fantasyfootballscout.co.uk/2016/12/19/the-premium-striker-conundrum/

                    Thanks for finishing this, very handy indeed and dovetails my plan sweetly 🙂

                    1. MTPockets
                        6 years, 7 months ago

                        Cheers for the link. Don't think I'll be chopping/changing, just trying to assess in blocks.
                        Certainly 'simpler' now due to overlap between current form & future fixtures on paper.
                        Will likely get more challenging if/when Kane picks up, Ibra returns etc, Ars/Che fixtures start delivering consistent returns for expensive fwds & mids.

                    2. TopdeBotton
                      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                      • 7 Years
                      6 years, 7 months ago

                      Morata has Palace in GW8.

                      It's also a bit ridiculous to be planning so far ahead when Aguero and Kane have the injury records they have.

                      1. MTPockets
                          6 years, 7 months ago

                          And Lacazette/Sanchez have good fixtures. Was only a comparision of the 3 in terms of allocating £ to 2 wrt potential captaincy. Perhaps that's not clear. Plans can blow up but have to base them on something.

                      2. DantheManinaPan
                        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                        • 10 Years
                        6 years, 7 months ago

                        Every single year, there are hundreds of posts saying that if they'd just capped one player for the entire season, they would've done better. If you start rotating like that, you'll end up picking the wrong one, as these strikers can score against anyone.

                        Armband is staying on Kane for me.

                        1. @persecuted_by_mods
                            6 years, 7 months ago

                            Just more fun to change

                      3. Rash
                        • 6 Years
                        6 years, 7 months ago

                        Good read but I am not going to ditch Kane just yet.. has 3 gws to explode otherwise he's going

                        1. Ajax Hamsterdam
                          • 9 Years
                          6 years, 7 months ago

                          He ll probably score but does his price tag justify his selection ?

                          1. Rash
                            • 6 Years
                            6 years, 7 months ago

                            Against West ham hudds bourn.. absolutely imo

                            1. Christina.
                              • 14 Years
                              6 years, 7 months ago

                              Spurs have lost their last 4 PL away games vs Wham. Only scoring 1 goal in the process.

                              1. Rash
                                • 6 Years
                                6 years, 7 months ago

                                I'm looking beyond this week alone though

                              2. G-Whizz
                                • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                                • Has Moderation Rights
                                • 6 Years
                                6 years, 7 months ago

                                and that goal wasn't scored by Harry either...

                      4. boc610
                        • 12 Years
                        6 years, 7 months ago

                        Its not a hoodoo or a curse..its basic psychology. Spurs when they play at Wembley arent going to feel they are playing at home,opposition won't feel like they are playing away. Its 19 cup finals for spurs against sides that will more often than nor find the motivation and energy to punch above their wait . Barnsley arent thinking yikes we are going to the lane,they are thinking" yes were off to wembley lads"

                        1. Limbo
                          • 13 Years
                          6 years, 7 months ago

                          Completely agree. The mindset of the crowd, players and opposition have a huge bearing on the outcome in any sport.

                      5. teki0s
                        • 7 Years
                        6 years, 7 months ago

                        Interesting article, thanks for the input. Personally, I cannot ignore the luck factor (he has hit the post several times) which has an effect in his morale. I will stick with him till I WC for sure.

                        1. Pooodle
                          • 14 Years
                          6 years, 7 months ago

                          There's a fine line between "luck" and being in form though. I think for the money you spend on Kane you need him to stick away those chances not hit the woodwork - and a fully in form Kane would have buried more of the chances.

                      6. FPL Hitman
                        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                        • 8 Years
                        6 years, 7 months ago

                        The Kane i saw from last season was not having a single shot on target during his dry spell. That is not the case this season and he has matured with time and gained more experience. That matters.

                        1. boc610
                          • 12 Years
                          6 years, 7 months ago

                          And if kun or kaku were in this exact position -lots of shots on target but just not scoring -you would still have them now in your team?

                          1. FPL Hitman
                            • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                            • 8 Years
                            6 years, 7 months ago

                            If Kun was the central striker with no competition from the likes of Jesus or Sterling, I probably would.

                        2. Get up ya bum
                          • 14 Years
                          6 years, 7 months ago

                          Spot on. Even the idea of form for me is more than doing maths. Watching the games he is playing very well. Better form than lukaku imo.

                          1. G-Whizz
                            • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                            • Has Moderation Rights
                            • 6 Years
                            6 years, 7 months ago

                            When you're paying top dollah for a striker results matter more than how they're playing imo. He hasn't produced what I expect from a £12.5m striker and I've had him for 5 weeks...

                            Sorry Harry can't support you this week, armband given to Aguero, come back next week and we'll talk terms...

                            1. AK ⭐
                              • 11 Years
                              6 years, 7 months ago

                              Kane hasn't got us the desired results, but there's nothing to backup the "fact" that he has actually gone down in terms of quality as a striker. He just seems to be having a barren run atm, I don't see any evidence of how the barren run will continue and Kane will keep blanking in the foreseeable GWs.

                      7. The Hindu Monkey
                        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                        • 9 Years
                        6 years, 7 months ago

                        Firmino or Vardy?

                        Firmino is away at Leicester, where Pool struggle. Away at Newcastle, against an extra motivated Benitez. Home to Jose. Who will park the bus and frustrate. And then away to Spurs, arguably the best defence in the league.

                        Oh and he has two champions league games and a trip to Brazil in that run.

                        Vardy? LIV Bou WBA Swa. No rotation. Won't play league cup. No international (likely)

                        Why are people telling me Bobby over Jamie again...

                        1. Team Bobcat
                          • 7 Years
                          6 years, 7 months ago

                          I am with you with vardy over firmino.

                          Notice you say spurs best defence in the league. Consider that then in your wildcard team.

                        2. Pochecinno
                          • 8 Years
                          6 years, 7 months ago

                          One of my main dilemmas on the WC and I think you have made a very strong concentration. Throw in the fact that he is an out and striker that will ALWAYS play as the front man and is the main goal threat of his team.

                          1. Pochecinno
                            • 8 Years
                            6 years, 7 months ago

                            *argument (I don't know how it became concentration)

                        3. Ode
                          • 6 Years
                          6 years, 7 months ago

                          And liverpool are without Mané. If you're on a wildcard get Vardy, but I wouldn't use a transfer to switch firm

                      8. boc610
                        • 12 Years
                        6 years, 7 months ago

                        I blame all the hatricks he got,people are so fearful of missing those massive hauls they are willing to be more patient with him.fact is no player gets as much leeway as he does and at this moment in time he is doing nothing to improve teams rankings .2 goals in 5 games with no assists would have had kaku or kun banished a long time ago.rationality for keeping him is now hanging on his shots on goal and nothing else

                        1. Pooodle
                          • 14 Years
                          6 years, 7 months ago

                          Completely agree - that's the main conclusion from the article. Kane seems to be having way more patience than anyone else would get despite being the most expensive striker in the league.

                          People keeping Kane after 2 goals in 5 but prepared to ditch Lukaku after 5 goals and 1 assist in 5 - I can't understand that at all.

                      9. Hardly Athletic
                        • 14 Years
                        6 years, 7 months ago

                        Kane has been the ultimate troll for me so far this season. Had him in GWs 1, 2, and 3 when he totalled just 4 points, sold him in GW4, scored 13, bought him back for GW5 home to Swansea and captained him after picking Lukaku every week from the start. No goals in 4 of 5 games and no assists either. Poor, poor value.

                        1. Pooodle
                          • 14 Years
                          6 years, 7 months ago

                          That's painful, though I think you made the right call ditching before Everton. At the end of the day one of his goals that game was a fluke cross. Had he just scored 1 goal you wouldn't be feeling so hard done by!

                      10. El Lobito 10
                        • 6 Years
                        6 years, 7 months ago

                        Good article though it does seem like an FPL manager justifying his decision. Let's look at it another way - he has 4 goals in his last 3 games including them CL. And they beat Dortmund, one of Europe's best sides, comprehensively at Wembley.

                        1. El Lobito 10
                          • 6 Years
                          6 years, 7 months ago

                          Oh and you also make no mention of the august curse, which certainly exists. He scored on 1 September for heaven's sake

                          1. Pooodle
                            • 14 Years
                            6 years, 7 months ago

                            I'd rather base it on stats than on a "curse".

                      11. Annie
                        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                        • 11 Years
                        6 years, 7 months ago

                        The hangover section conveniently fails to cover Kane's injury and minutes. Not sure rotation is mentioned either, a big factor when considering City players.

                      12. Cok3y5murf
                        • 7 Years
                        6 years, 7 months ago

                        Agree with the stats, but to be fair, Kane has 4 goals and an assist from his last 3 games in all competitions.

                        Sure, he's started slowly, but his most recent form looks impressive. We aren't including the big chances he had vs Dortmund in the stats, and that was at Wembley too.

                        1. Pooodle
                          • 14 Years
                          6 years, 7 months ago

                          Yes this is just Premier League only. He was impressive against Dortmund but the games that matter for our purposes are in the PL where he's just not cut it.

                          1. Freddo
                            • 6 Years
                            6 years, 7 months ago

                            Are you suggesting that West Ham, Huddersfield and Bournmouth will be harder for him than Dortmund?

                            Not sure cherry picking stats based on a players individual form adds any weight to an article, takes away from it massively.

                            1. Pooodle
                              • 14 Years
                              6 years, 7 months ago

                              Strangely Burnley and Swansea at home have already been harder for him than Dortmund...

                              The stats are based on the Premier League performances which at the end of the day is where we get our fantasy points from.

                              1. Cok3y5murf
                                • 7 Years
                                6 years, 7 months ago

                                Form is form though, wherever it is. A player can't be in bad form in the PL and turn into good form in the CL.

                                Burnley and Swansea being harder is due to other factors and they've been harder for Spurs as a whole, as they've been unable to beat them (which has come as a surprise to all of us). It doesn't suggest that Kane is the culprit and that he's out of form.

                                1. Pooodle
                                  • 14 Years
                                  6 years, 7 months ago

                                  No that's true, I agree with all of those points. But the key issue as you say is that if Spurs are out of form - or at the very least not in as good form as last year, which no one can dispute - then Kane is not going to be bringing in the points you're hoping for at 12.5m of your budget. We obviously wouldn't mind from a fantasy perspective if Spurs were losing 3-2 every week and Kane was scoring a brace, but we do mind when Spurs are grinding out 0-0 games with nothing for Kane.

                                  1. Cok3y5murf
                                    • 7 Years
                                    6 years, 7 months ago

                                    Perhaps some of us are just not convinced that Spurs are out of form yet.

                                    I look at only the most recent games and the last three were Everton, Dortmund and Swansea. I watched the Everton game and thought they were great. It was almost like Everton didn't do much wrong and Spurs were just much better than them. Didn't watch the Dortmund game but didn't expect them to win 3-1 at all. So I brought in Kane, and then the Swansea game was a slow, dry shocker.

                                    So it's been a little confusing. Not quite sure what to make of it yet, but I would just like to be patient since Aguero has Chelsea after Palace anyway. I like Kane's next two more than Aguero's.

                                    1. Pooodle
                                      • 14 Years
                                      6 years, 7 months ago

                                      That's fair enough - they did look impressive against Everton and Dortmund. That was a reason for me why I looked into the stats, to see if there was an explanation as to why Kane wasn't banging in the goals, and it seems like the big chances stats are crucial in demonstrating that the quality of his chances is not particularly high at the moment, especially against teams like Burnley and Swansea who are happy playing for a 0-0.

                                    2. Freddo
                                      • 6 Years
                                      6 years, 7 months ago

                                      TBF they did the same thing last year didn't they, struggled to win a game for weeks and made a big deal out of a long unbeaten run of draws, maybe they are just slow starters like Kane dont like Aug.

                                      1. Pooodle
                                        • 14 Years
                                        6 years, 7 months ago

                                        That's true - the slow start has affected them for a couple of seasons. I remember reading an article last year of how the season before they won the most points in the league for the middle 30 games but started slowly and finished poorly.

                        2. TopdeBotton
                          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                          • 7 Years
                          6 years, 7 months ago

                          Dortmund played a suicidally high line against Tottenham and if they do it again in Germany, which they probably will, the result will probably be the same.

                          Similarly, if West Ham play like they did against Tottenham in May, there's no reason they can't win again or at least frustrate Kane.

                      13. Mahesh_Kumar
                        • 9 Years
                        6 years, 7 months ago

                        Hilarious how people are finding reasons to sell Arry. Some even for a hit. Its not going to end well for you chaps.

                        1. andy85wsm
                          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                          • Has Moderation Rights
                          • 13 Years
                          6 years, 7 months ago

                          4 blanks in 5 - it's fair enough really.

                          1. Freddo
                            • 6 Years
                            6 years, 7 months ago

                            4 blanks in 5 or 3 goals in his last 3 games.

                            An example that you can spin anything to fit an argument.

                            1. Pooodle
                              • 14 Years
                              6 years, 7 months ago

                              But on any metric you have Lukaku with 7 goals and an assist in his last 7.

                              1. Freddo
                                • 6 Years
                                6 years, 7 months ago

                                You do in fixtures that was better than any other teams in the league, those switch now and Kane gets the benefit of those while Lukaku's firm up.

                                He's generally known as a flat track bully for a reason.

                            2. Get up ya bum
                              • 14 Years
                              6 years, 7 months ago

                              4 goals, and an assist 😉

                        2. Pooodle
                          • 14 Years
                          6 years, 7 months ago

                          I find it more bizarre how people are keeping him after only returning points in 1 of 5 games. At the end of the day we have transfers for a reason so I'd get rid or not get him in until he hits form and then it's a simple transfer to bring him in then.

                          1. Freddo
                            • 6 Years
                            6 years, 7 months ago

                            Not really bizarre, you can't do anything about the past 5 games now, it's history, you can look at the next 3 though, West Ham, Huddersfield and Bournmouth are ripe for points.

                            If he doesn't perform in those then he'll be sold fast with very few looking back.

                            Kane is not Negredo, patience rewards sometimes.

                            1. Pooodle
                              • 14 Years
                              6 years, 7 months ago

                              It does - my main question though is why Kane gets so much more patience than people like Lukaku or the other heavy hitters? His stats are not showing any reason to keep him but so many still want to.

                              1. Freddo
                                • 6 Years
                                6 years, 7 months ago

                                I tell you why he gets so much patience, wind back 12 months after b2b blanks as C against Hull and Burnley, the talk on here was exactly the same with regards to talking yourself into dropping him, the next ten games were punishing for sellers, I sold him, it hurt.

                                He's the best striker in the league, b2b Golden Boot winner, he's not Benteke or Negredo, he gets patience because he replays the faith.

                          2. Get up ya bum
                            • 14 Years
                            6 years, 7 months ago

                            If 4 goals and an assist in his last 3 games isn't "form" than I don't know what is.

                            1. Get up ya bum
                              • 14 Years
                              6 years, 7 months ago

                              Lukaku 3g 1a Aguero 5g 2a

                              1. Get up ya bum
                                • 14 Years
                                6 years, 7 months ago

                                They are all in great form and are top picks. Just choose two and stick for a while imo.

                            2. Pooodle
                              • 14 Years
                              6 years, 7 months ago

                              Remember though that one of those games was against Malta... He was good against Dortmund but there are just way better options at the minute than Kane. I don't see why you wouldn't ditch him for a bit, wait for him to hit form in the league, then get him back in. Not least when City and United are both playing Palace in the next 2 weeks.

                              1. Freddo
                                • 6 Years
                                6 years, 7 months ago

                                Kane has Huddersfield when Lukaku has Palace, nothing in that fixture wise and Kane/Lukaku have very similar underlying stats, either could explode.

                                1. Pooodle
                                  • 14 Years
                                  6 years, 7 months ago

                                  They don't have similar underlying stats - that's the whole point of the article. Lukaku has had 9 big chances (5 goals) and Kane has only had 4 big chances (which led to 1 goal, his other was a cross).

                                  This is what I'm trying to say in the article - Kane's total number of shots does not mean his "stats" are excellent. Big chances are key.

                                  1. Freddo
                                    • 6 Years
                                    6 years, 7 months ago

                                    Yes they do, 11 shots on goal each, Lukaku has a few more big chances but also means he's missed a few more, penalty area touches are similar, Kane has more goal attempts.

                                    Look it up and don't be blinded by goals and assists if you're looking at underlying stats.

                                    1. Pooodle
                                      • 14 Years
                                      6 years, 7 months ago

                                      Do you disagree that more big chances should lead to more goals?

                                      I would much rather have someone having fewer shots on targets but more big chances because I think 9 times out of 10 the person with the more big chances will score more goals.

                                      As another example, every year Coutinho and Eriksen lead the way for total number of shots but neither get anywhere near the top of the scoring charts because their quality of chances isn't good enough. One of Kane's shots on target this weekend was a free kick from 40 yards that was never going in.

                                      1. Freddo
                                        • 6 Years
                                        6 years, 7 months ago

                                        I don't, they've had very easy games though so am not surprised that he's had more, that will drop now that their fixtures firm uo.

                                        1. Pooodle
                                          • 14 Years
                                          6 years, 7 months ago

                                          But Kane's fixtures have included Burnley and Swansea at home and Newcastle away - they're hardly difficult games. It's got to be worrying. Look at the members article that has been put up, Kane has only had 1 big chance at home in the PL all season.

                                          1. Freddo
                                            • 6 Years
                                            6 years, 7 months ago

                                            Newcastle away was not easy for them and Chelsea is Chelsea, are you suggesting that Spurs and United both had the same opening fixtures?

                                          2. Pooodle
                                            • 14 Years
                                            6 years, 7 months ago

                                            Chelsea at home is harder than any game United have had, but the others are just as good for each team.

                                            Kane only had 1 big chance against Burnley and Swansea combined, both at home! And zero goals!

                              2. Get up ya bum
                                • 14 Years
                                6 years, 7 months ago

                                I'm talking about Tottenham not England.
                                In four days last week he had 4 goals and an assist Vs everton and Dortmund. Now one blank and he's in bad form again?
                                More important than the numbers anyway is how he's playing. The signs all put towards the goals continuing to flow.

                                1. Pooodle
                                  • 14 Years
                                  6 years, 7 months ago

                                  He didn't get an assist against Everton and one of his goals in that game was a cross?

                                  I'm looking at form over the 5 PL games - which is a large enough sample to be useful and takes into account the reality that Kane is not in as good form as the others mentioned in the article. And the explanation is the lack of big chances coming his way.

                                  1. Get up ya bum
                                    • 14 Years
                                    6 years, 7 months ago

                                    His assist came Vs Dortmund. Just ignoring certain Tottenham games because they don't suit the narrative makes no sense. Would you like to use evidence to help predict future returns or cherry pick to confirm a bias?

                                    1. Pooodle
                                      • 14 Years
                                      6 years, 7 months ago

                                      But on your argument you're ignoring all of the PL games apart from the last 2 because it doesn't suit your narrative?

                                      It boils down to this for me - 12.5m, 5 games, 2 goals (one that was a cross), 4 big chances, 4 blanks. That's not good enough for me from a fantasy perspective.

                                      1. Get up ya bum
                                        • 14 Years
                                        6 years, 7 months ago

                                        I'm not ignoring anything. I've watched most of his games. I brought him in and captained him after 3 blanks because he is playing well.
                                        I just don't understand why you refuse to acknowledge the bloke scored 4 goals and got an assist just last week. And those goals were easy to see coming because he's been playing very well. They will keep coming too.

                                        1. Pooodle
                                          • 14 Years
                                          6 years, 7 months ago

                                          It's mentioned in the first few paragraphs of the article. Maybe it's a difference in approach to playing the game but I want more than 1 set of returns in 5 games from a 12.5m player.

                              3. Cok3y5murf
                                • 7 Years
                                6 years, 7 months ago

                                Not Malta. Everton, Dortmund and Swansea.

                          3. HashAttack
                            • 7 Years
                            6 years, 7 months ago

                            Surely he hit form at the start of September ... sometimes sh* happens, such as the Swansea result

                            If you did not have Kane during August and brought him in on 1st September, you would still be reasonably happy

                            Firmino has given be back to back 2 pointers, Morata got me 1 point, Lukaku got me my only zero pointer of the seasons ....

                            1. Get up ya bum
                              • 14 Years
                              6 years, 7 months ago

                              Yeah I got him in for the everton game and have him the armband. Very happy. Nobody is going to score every single game.

                      14. Dont Shoot
                        • 7 Years
                        6 years, 7 months ago

                        Minutes, minutes, minutes...mentioned nowhere...so,
                        I have to disagree with last season analysis
                        Lukaku
                        2016/17 221 pts 3266 min 25 goals 130 per goal
                        Kane
                        2016/17 224 pts 2523 min 29 goals 87 per goal
                        Aguero
                        2016/17 175 pts 2404 min 20 goals 120 per goal
                        Jesus
                        2016/17 67 pts 651 min 7 goals 93 per goal

                        "If he missed seven he would have..."
                        And on other topics we can read "City is so explosive they can do in 60 what others do for 90" and so on...

                        This season - Wembley, pitch, voodoo and so on...ok, maybe...but last season?
                        He was a class better than the rest.

                        1. Pooodle
                          • 14 Years
                          6 years, 7 months ago

                          Last season he was better than the rest, but he was also playing for the top scoring team in the league.

                          The point of the article is to show that this season is different though - not least because of Lukaku's move to United and Spurs' troubles settling in at Wembley.

                      15. Wetdream
                        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                        • 9 Years
                        6 years, 7 months ago

                        Great article ! Just the push I needed to dump Kane for Aguero !

                        1. Pooodle
                          • 14 Years
                          6 years, 7 months ago

                          Thanks - I came across the big chances data a couple of weeks ago as it's been a problem that's affected Kane all season. I'd posted a few comments on it previously but felt an article was needed seeing as everyone is just focussing on his number of shots!

                      16. Karan14
                        • 8 Years
                        6 years, 7 months ago

                        I personally feel Lukaku will outscore Kane this season and might even win the golden boot.
                        We saw this last season how Ibra was vital to United's attack and his goal involvement meant was very high. Lukaku is exactly that with a better team around him now and also has a better conversion rate than Ibra.

                        Kane vs Aguero/Jesus/Morata is where I find it tricky. Agreed that all 3 are doing better than Kane right now but will this be the case long term?

                        Pep's rotation is a huge factor in this. For us to trust Jesus or Aguero with the captaincy they need to be nailed. We saw how he can bench Aguero against Bournemouth and we also saw how early Jesus can be hauled off at times (he can't score twice every time before being subbed early).

                        Morata is still somewhat an unknown quantity. We will have to see how Conte manages his minutes against tougher opponents in CL.

                        I think I still have to wait for couple of weeks and see how everything goes and then make the decision of who I want as my strikers on wildcard post IT break.

                        1. Pooodle
                          • 14 Years
                          6 years, 7 months ago

                          I think the key issue here is to remember that you don't need to pick one of them for the whole season. You have transfers so can swap between them if, for example, Kane hits form and Jesus and Aguero start to be rotated. Then just ditch your City player for Kane and you'll be sorted.

                          1. Karan14
                            • 8 Years
                            6 years, 7 months ago

                            Yes but I don't want to be chasing points. I think we have to look at blocks of fixtures and decide. Can't be transferring them in and out every week.

                            Given Aguero has a very good fixture this week there's still a chance he could be benched but I don't see that doubt with Kane.
                            Overall the next 2 weeks Kane has better fixtures than Aguero and is also not playing at Wembley.

                            Still think that's it's a bit too early to make this decision that who's better.
                            Also I don't think Kane to Aguero/Jesus should be the top priority transfer this week. For all we know maybe this could be the week when Kane hits form.

                            1. Pooodle
                              • 14 Years
                              6 years, 7 months ago

                              I agree that changing every week is going to lead to missing points. But Kane's now had 5 weeks without doing much, and the other heavy hitters are bringing the points in rapidly. I can't see Kane majorly outscoring anyone over the next few so if I had him I'd certainly be attracted with Lukaku or a City player for the next few at least.

                      17. Eton Rifles
                        • 8 Years
                        6 years, 7 months ago

                        It's called regression - simples

                      18. AK ⭐
                        • 11 Years
                        6 years, 7 months ago

                        Appreciate the work Poodle, but I am yet to see the reasoning behind why he isn't primed for points in the coming Gameweeks. From what I have picked up from the article is, he hasn't scored as many as we had expected him to. His conversion rate is way below (6.3%) from his previous seasons (26.4%, 16% and 18.8%), he is getting himself into good positions though and I don't know how we can reach on a conclusion that his conversion rate will not regress to the mean.

                        Also, we can't just take out his goals from his last 2 games. We could argue similarly against Lukaku's haul against Bournemouth or Costa's blanks after the whole transfer fiasco in January, but these would only be poor arguments I'd think.

                        The Big Chances theory and "Wembley Factor" is something I can buy yes, but there's nothing to suggest that he will not be scoring in the coming weeks.

                        1. Pooodle
                          • 14 Years
                          6 years, 7 months ago

                          Big chances and goal conversion are directly linked to each other - so the more big chances you have, the higher your goal conversion will be.

                          This is shown by Kane's stats - last year he had 28 big chances from 110 total attempts, a 25.5% ratio. This year he's only had 4 big chances from 32 attempts, a 12.5% ratio. So this year he's having fewer than half the number of big chances per shot than he did last year, though he's taking far more shots than usual.

                          I think that means you can't just assume that a high number of shots and low conversion rate means he's due goals. Without a higher number and proportion of big chances coming his way, he's likely to keep scoring slowly. It also suggests he's shooting from everywhere without trying to get clear cut opportunities.

                          And at the end of the day for 12.5m you've got to be outscoring everyone - not just keeping pace with those for 1m or 2m cheaper.

                          1. AK ⭐
                            • 11 Years
                            6 years, 7 months ago

                            Yeah, but "Big Chances" factor is only one of the factors that correlates with Goal Conversion. It's not the only factor though. Shots on Target and Shots Inside the Box are considered too.

                            https://public.tableau.com/profile/paul.riley#!/vizhome/PremierLeaguexGandShotMap2017-18/PremierLeaguexGShotDashboard2017-18

                            This is Paul Riley's Expected Goals Models. Kane is still at the top of the league for Expected Goals, not only in Forwards.

                            I think we are only cherry picking stats to justify removing Kane here.

                            1. Pooodle
                              • 14 Years
                              6 years, 7 months ago

                              I haven't had him all season so not a justification for me removing him. I was worried about their move to Wembley and Kane starting slowly, both of which turned out to be right.

                              I'm just trying to point out that there's a pretty compelling reason why Kane has not scored as many goals as Lukaku, Aguero and Jesus in particular - and that's his lack of big chances.

                              If you want to focus on total number of shots then that's up to you and I hope it goes well for you, but I'm going to keep focussing on big chances as in my opinion that's the most obvious stat to rely on to see who is having the highest number of clear cut opportunities to score.

                              1. AK ⭐
                                • 11 Years
                                6 years, 7 months ago

                                That's fair. There's no right or wrong way of playing the game. I like to look at Shots Inside the Box, Shots on Target and Penalty Area Touches with Big Chances of course, so I am still confident that the goals will come.

                      19. FantasyTote
                        • 7 Years
                        6 years, 7 months ago

                        Tottenham Hotspur ended last season in second position and finished on an incredible run, winning 12 of their last 13 games. Along the way their star man Harry Kane picked up 29 goals and the golden boot. The corner stone to this incredible performance was their home form. Through the entire season they remained unbeaten at home and only drew two games to Liverpool and Arsenal. Every other opponent was dispatched and had to forfeit the 3 points.

                        So whats going on this year?

                        Spurs have already dropped more points at home in their first 3 games this season than they did through the entire of last season. The personnel have not changed much as they managed to hold on to key players like Kane, Alli, Eriksen and Dier but one thing they haven't held onto, and this is crucial, is White Hart Lane.

                        The White Hart Lane effect
                        White Hart Lane was the fortress, the long standing home of Spurs and where they felt so comfortable and confident. The fans also had a true connection with the stadium and that was transferred onto the pitch every weekend last season. White Hart lane is currently undergoing renovation and Spurs are now playing their home games at Wembley.

                        A change of stadium can have a huge effect on the performance of a team and we seen this last year when fellow Londoners West Ham move from their well established home of Upton Park to the Olympic Stadium. West Ham went from losing only 3 games in 2016 to losing 8 in 2017 season at home. This also had a knock on effect on their away form due to a lack of confidence.

                        So what does this mean?
                        There are no guarantees in football but the evidence is there that Spurs wont be as dominant at home this season and with Harry Kane still to score at home it may also pose some difficult decisions for Fantasy Managers.

                        Kane a luxury choice?
                        If Spurs home form continues to be bad this season Kane may become a luxury to choice only for away games. Its hard to believe the golden boot winner for the past two seasons can fall that far away but at the moment the evidence and stats are pointing that direction.

                        Spurs take on West Ham this weekend away from home so we will have to wait till next week to see if the trend continues.

                      20. Teror
                        • 9 Years
                        6 years, 7 months ago

                        I see now from this article that Kane cannot be justified. Lukaku, Vardy, Aguero it is.

                      21. djpete
                        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                        • 11 Years
                        6 years, 7 months ago

                        Very interesting. Cheers!

                      22. Pooodle
                        • 14 Years
                        6 years, 7 months ago

                        As an update following Kane's performance today, members should check his stats at home vs away.

                        It's no surprise he's done well away from home - he's had 6 big chances (3 scored) in 3 games.

                        At home it's a completely different story with only 1 big chance (0 scored) in 3 games.

                      23. Get up ya bum
                        • 14 Years
                        6 years, 7 months ago

                        ...

                      24. Rhinos
                        • 10 Years
                        6 years, 7 months ago

                        This article will self destruct in five minutes repeat this article will self destruct in five minutes