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‘Big at the Back’ the Right Call for the Long Haul?

There seems to have been less talk of ‘big at the back’ during this truncated preseason, with managers focusing on the plethora of midfield talent.

However, as we all know, we cannot have them all. And throughout our teams we find ourselves looking for the £7.0m-and-below players to play important roles in our teams. Managers spend vast amounts of time pouring over the stats to find the latest unheralded midfield gem or the newest fox in the box.

However, looking at the most important statistic in FPL – points – shows that banking on a solid defence over 38 Gameweeks is probably the best strategy.

If we compare every price bracket from Trent Alexander-Arnold at £7.5m to the £4.0m bench fodder, a defender is always the highest outfield point-scorer. Alexander-Arnold is in 55% of teams and is far and away the most-owned player. The logic is obvious where else can you find a player who scores 200+ points for £7.5m? The answer is nowhere.

However, can that logic be applied elsewhere?

His teammate Andy Robertson scored 181 points and comes in at a £7.0m. The closest attacking player valued at that price and below is Aston Villa’s Jack Grealish (£7.0m), who falls a massive 32 points behind. In fact, the only other position that gets close is Burnley goalkeeper Nick Pope (£5.5m), who fell a mere 11 points short.

A similar comparison can be made with highly-owned defenders Virgil van Dijk (£6.5m) and Matt Doherty (£6.0m) – no midfielders or forwards get anywhere near these points totals of last year.

Further down the price brackets we come to the plethora of options at £5.5m. Currently the highest-owned player in the bracket is Newcastle’s Allan Saint-Maximin (£5.5m) who scored a meager 92 points last season – that total can be bettered by 24 defenders and 15 goalkeepers. 

Many within the community often justify the captaining of a midfielder over a forward because of the extra points for goals and clean sheets. This article will not try to justify captaining defenders on a regular basis (see Shane Duffy). When looking at the mid-price assets, why do we not value the clean sheets for defenders over forwards and midfielders? 

Clean Sheets v Goals

For example, let’s look to Burnley where we can pick up for a pricey £5.5m Nick Pope and James Tarkowski or we could invest in their forward line in the shape of Chris Wood at £6.5m. Wood was the highest point-scoring forward or midfielder at that price bracket from last season (except for John Lundstram (£5.5m) who was a defender last season).

Wood scored a respectable 14 goals last year, however Burnley kept 15 clean sheets.  The net result: ever-presents Pope and Tarkowski already have more points than Wood before we even factor in Pope’s save points and Tarkowski’s goals and assists, of which he got two goals and three assists in the last campaign. But we must remember that defenders and goalkeepers lose points for every two goals conceded, therefore you might not want to play Tarkowski away at Manchester City.

Delving deeper into the statistics and looking at expected goals (xG) statistics. We can’t hide the fact that midfielders tend to do better. However, of current midfielders, Southampton’s James Ward-Prowse (£6.0m) sits top of midfielders under £7.5m with 13.46xG. Below him in the rankings are some fantasy favourites Jack Grealish, James Maddison, Mason Mount, Harvey Barnes, and Adama Traore all costing £7.0m except Traore (£6.5m). The range of the xG varies from 13.24 to 10.31, however all bar Maddison and Ward-Prowse outperformed that number.

Now before presenting the data for the defenders, let’s remember the mitigating factors: defenders get three more clean-sheet points than midfielders; they will generally cost you less money unless they play for Liverpool; and for every goal scored, they get an extra point.

No surprise Doherty tops the xG with 8.99 but with xG all above 7.00 there is Cesar Azpilicueta (£6.0m), Lucas Digne (£6.0m) and Andrew Robertson. 

Liverpool spots are precious in your team and many managers tried the double-Liverpool defence at the beginning of the season, before quickly jumping off during the early season when Adrian was between the sticks. However, if you are sitting in front of your draft with any of the above mentioned midfielders, the question must be – is Robertson not a better option?

The stats would indicate Robertson’s goal involvement will likely increase with his greater involvement in set-piece duties in the second half of the season. During the first 19 Gameweeks, Robertson had one attempt from a free-kick and took three corners. In the second half of the season Robertson seemed to have a monopoly on corners from the left-hand side, taking 39. He also had four attempts from set plays.

Returning to the popular Allan Saint-Maximin, you get a player with an xG of 6.36. For a £0.5m saving you can get a number of defenders with an xG of above five with the added bonus of clean sheet points. The likes of Lewis Dunk (£5.0m, 5.18xG) and Ryan Bertrand (£5.0m, 5.56xG) can get close to Saint-Maximin’s attacking output and will pick up clean sheets. For the same price you can back the Sheffield United defence in Enda Stevens (£5.5m, 5.56xG) or the currently-injured Crystal Palace full-back Patrick van Aanholt (£5.5m, 5.34xG)

If you compare forwards for the price of £7.0m you can only find three players with an xG Involvement of above 10. Wood, Dominic Calvert-Lewin (£7.0m), Neal Maupay (£6.5m), and Sebastien Haller (£6.5m). 

Even when looking at attempts in the box, defenders compare fairly well with forwards. Maupay and Calvert-Lewin had 73 and 74 attempts in the box, the next best is Wood at 58. You can replace almost half of Wood’s attempts that with cheaper centre-backs, Harry Maguire (£5.5m), John Egan (£5.0m), Yeri Mina (£5.5m) and Dunk all having over 25 shots or more in the box.

Going big at the back is not easy: the rigid squad numbers in midfield need to be filled and the options are limited. Burnley and Wolves, two reliable Premier League defences, allow easy ways into their defence, while the options for £4.5m starting midfielders are limited and the cheap forwards appears to be non-existent.

But if you identify bench fodder in defence there are options for the same in midfield. Following the departure of Pierre-Emile Hojberg (£5.0m) to Tottenham you would hope Oriol Romeu (£4.5m) would hold down a starting position, and a recently departed Saint, Harrison Reed (£4.5m), will likely anchor the Fulham midfield.

They are not spectacular but will get points from the bench when needed. Most managers appear to be hoping Rhian Brewster (£4.5m) secures a loan move from away from Anfield, if this was the case investing heavily in defence will become easier. Not to mention there will be a Todd Cantwell out there somewhere.

Conclusion

The statistics show the best value in FPL is in defence. The strategy is long term and it takes a stubborn manager.

When Allan Saint-Maximin bags a brace on the opening weekend and Patrick Bamford (£5.5m) bundles the ball home at Anfield, the bandwagon will be rolling, the masses will empty funds from their defence to jump onto whichever bargain-basement player hits form next. You then get in a vicious cycle of hopping on and off different cheap midfielders and forwards.

It won’t be easy on the nerves as you watch the clock from minute zero through the unbearable injury-time minutes, as Chris Wood – a player you have completely disregarded – holds the ball up in the corner as Burnley hold out for another 1-0 home win. Pope taking the mandatory three bonus points despite Tarkowski nodding home the winner from a set piece. 

It’s not natural sitting through a football match eager not to see a shot on target, hoping for a boring 0-0 draw. But your defenders start the match with a clean sheet they have something to hold onto from minute one. Your attacking players have to score to earn something your defenders don’t have to do anything. 

‘Big at the back’ gives you more players from the better teams. These players can get close to the expected attacking returns of the mid-priced options with the added clean-sheet potential. Expensive defenders generally guarantee you starts (unless you play for Manchester City), they will limit your need for transfers they are set-and-forget players. 

The article started with you cannot have all the big hitters, this strategy allows you to jump from one to the other ensuring you have the right big hitter to put the armband on when this year’s Norwich City come rolling into town.

You need to stick with it for 38 weeks, it will only show at the end of the season, and you will likely be behind after Gameweek 1, but if you hold firm ‘Big at the Back’ will pay you back in spades. Just don’t captain Shane Duffy.

78 Comments Post a Comment
  1. R.C
    • 6 Years
    3 years, 7 months ago

    This works only for ghost teams and not for an active team

    1. diesel001
      • 7 Years
      3 years, 7 months ago

      I agree that 5 at the back might be too much.

      But 4 at the back with at least 3 premiums usually comes out best in the optimal dead team squad.

      I know that we are not playing the 'ghost team' game. But think about where you want to use your transfers. Do you want to use them on defenders or on rotating premiums for the captaincy?

      By setting a stable defence you can use your transfers to (1) rotate the captaincy, and (2) get on that cheap non-top 6 player who will score 175+ pts (e.g. Ings last season)

      1. FPL Theorist
        • 4 Years
        3 years, 7 months ago

        You'll probably be accused of attacking a straw man here because "no one really believes they should be using a lot of transfers on defenders".

        But yeah, basically this is the way to think about it.

      2. FPL Theorist
        • 4 Years
        3 years, 7 months ago

        Essentially, I'm bad at your #2 and I know it. I don't want to rely on a strategy that requires me to be good at it.

        If the new Danny Ings is extremely obvious, I'd like to think I will not be too stubborn to jump on him fairly early. But if this player is not so obvious, I am not going to pretend that missing out on the next Danny Ings necessarily prevents me from finishing up near the top. Many managers will have hopped on the bandwagons too late, then stayed on them too long and not jumped off fast enough.

    2. LangerznMash
      • 7 Years
      3 years, 7 months ago

      I'm very late to this discussion, however, going of the article and the comments I would say a combination of these approaches/tactics would make the optimum strategy. 'Big at the back' is a great base, however you need to consider a couple of stable budget mids/forward who will deliver high ppm to enable a couple of premium captaincy options.

      Conclusion: 'Value-focused' + 'upside chasing' = success.

  2. Is there value in going big at the back?
    TopMarx
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • Has Moderation Rights
    • 11 Years
    3 years, 7 months ago

    Thank you for the article kierenbwfc. It's an interesting debate and it's good to see Pro Pundit Darren Wiles also favouring a big-at-the-back approach, as I am too.

    FPL is a limited-budget game, therefore price and value are important. I think it's worth pointing out that Danny Ings began last season at £6.0m and went on to score 198 points, which is incredible value - an average of 33 points per million. In fact that's better value than Trent who got 210 points from a £7.0m starting price - 30 point per million.

    I think with forwards and midfielders, the ones who perform well tend to have bigger price increases than defenders. This is my perception, I haven't checked this out for certain, I'm just going on the idea that goals are more attractive than clean sheets so people will want to buy goalscorers.

    You make a good point about needing to fill slots in our team, and I also wonder about value among our five defenders. For instance, will a £4.5m defender prove better value than a £6.0m or £7.0m defender?

    I think if I can get 25 points per million from a player I'm doing well, so by that reckoning Robertson at £7.0m would need to outscore a £4.5m defender by about 60 points, which I think he probably will.

    It an approach that has obviously worked well for Darren over the years, so you are definitely on to something.

    1. FPL Theorist
      • 4 Years
      3 years, 7 months ago

      Every season there are one or two great value midfielders or forwards like Ings last season. That's why I think the core of this approach to the game should be "value-focused" rather than "big at the back" specifically.

      That said, last year it was extremely difficult to distinguish Ings from various pretenders, such as DCL who did quite well for a long time but then very poorly post-restart. Should we have faith in our ability to make these distinctions? I certainly don't.

      1. FPL Theorist
        • 4 Years
        3 years, 7 months ago

        Without hindsight, we're not likely to have got on Ings last year right from the start and received all 198 points while using no transfers on that spot in our team. More realistically, maybe the typical manager got a total of 198 points from various players in that 6.0m forward spot, but perhaps spent 6 transfers moving around different players in that spot, while a value-focused manager just went with Doherty set-and-forget for 167 points with no transfers used. The transfers not spent by the latter could then be used on upside chasing, for example.

      2. vanishing spray
        • 9 Years
        3 years, 7 months ago

        Well put, for offensive players, there is more room for individual variance (say, comparing van Dijk in Southampton to Ings). Invididual streaks work both in good and bad of course, which gives you leverage against other players. Not to mention part of the charm in a game is having that kind of control.

        Disregarding exceptional players like TAA, there is also something to be said comparing absolute points to points per cost, specifically considering the captaincy. 12m+5m might be less value-efficient than 8.5+8.5 in a vacuum, but the maths changes when you add in the armband. The ceiling just doesn't go that high for defenders.

      3. TopMarx
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • Has Moderation Rights
        • 11 Years
        3 years, 7 months ago

        I agree a value-focused approach is the way forward, and defenders often offer value for money. And, it's been mentioned in the comments, but we do have transfers in FPL - I made 59 last season! I think we need to find a balance of players: some we leave in our team for long periods of time and some we move in and out.

        The more attacking defenders, perhaps because they have several ways to pick up points (goals, assist, clean sheets), feel like they will give us a drip feed of returns in the season. So perhaps we use less transfers on defenders because of that?

        I agree it is very hard to tell the difference between a midfielder/forward who is a flash in the pan and one who represents value for the season. And captaincy plays a part too. But this is the game for me - finding undervalued players. And I think this season a decent number of defenders look undervalued.

    2. FPL Theorist
      • 4 Years
      3 years, 7 months ago

      With regard to "goals are more attractive than clean sheets so people will want to buy goalscorers", this is true, but I think even more importantly, it means that the goalscorers get in the template and then most managers are afraid of not owning the goalscorers who are in the template (FOMO).

      Compare that to the emotions generated by Nick Pope, for instance. Did people talk about "fear of not owning" Pope? It seemed like it was more just disgust at how "jammy" the Pope owners were, and how those owners supposedly didn't deserve all the save points and bonus points that are (predictably) generated by Burnley's style of play whenever Burnley are having a decent season.

    3. HollywoodXI
      • 9 Years
      3 years, 7 months ago

      Big at the back is possible if you remove a big hitter in midfield. For example, going without Salah allows for a heavy hitting defence, decent attack and one heavy hitter and a couple of mid priced midfielders. But it’s Salah. It’s a brave move if you do it.

      1. TomSaints
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 6 Years
        3 years, 7 months ago

        A premium player e.g Salah only delivers about 20 points per million. This can be matched and likely exceeded spreading that cost. The flip side is captaincy which hugely increases returns.

        I think you can justify having 1 premium who you (c) and transfer out every 3 or 4 games to chase fixtures and form. To have a really strong supporting cast.

        1. TopMarx
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • Has Moderation Rights
          • 11 Years
          3 years, 7 months ago

          Yes the value argument only really applies to players costing under £9m in my opinion - those you are less likely to captain.

          1. TomSaints
            • Fantasy Football Scout Member
            • 6 Years
            3 years, 7 months ago

            Spot on. (C) changes everything but you can only (c) one at a time. Have 1 or at most 2 premiums and you’re going to miss hauls but over 4-5 gw’s it will likely even out

            1. TopMarx
              • Fantasy Football Scout Member
              • Has Moderation Rights
              • 11 Years
              3 years, 7 months ago

              Different approaches are possible but with the current player pricing that's the way I'm likely to start this season.

    4. UshFPL
      • 7 Years
      3 years, 7 months ago

      Planning on picking a strong defence that will barely need to be changed and then focusing my transfers further forward. As you say, an attacker or two in their price range will probably outscore them but hindsight is 20/20. The likelihood that I pick the right one is low.

      Currently playing 442 as I think 433 and 451 are inflexible. Trent, Robbo and Davies look certs for my squad atm. If Telles arrives at Wolves I'll take Tierney as a placeholder for GWs 1 and 2.

      1. TopMarx
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • Has Moderation Rights
        • 11 Years
        3 years, 7 months ago

        Sounds like a good plan!

    5. TomSaints
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 6 Years
      3 years, 7 months ago

      I posted this at lunchtime and stand by it:

      As a frame of reference, around 2350 points should get you into the top 10k.
      That means you need a playing return of 23.5 points per million (though in reality you need higher than this as ~20m will be on the bench). A couple of observations on this from last season:

      1. Goalkeepers have the highest p/m figure. Pope 30.9 came top and 9 goal keepers returned better than 23.5. This includes Ryan 135 points for Brighton at 4.5.
      2. Defenders – TAA came top 28/m and 10 other defenders had a return of 23.5 or better.
      3. Midfielders – Only Lundstram (who we’ll discount due to OOP) has a figure above 23.5. KDB 21.8, Westwood 21.5m Grealish 21.3. Salah has 19.4 for reference.
      4. Attackers – No forward is above 23.5. Ings 23.3, Jiminez 22.8 and Martial 22.2

      What this screams to me is to invest in a strong defence and get the GK right. TAA plus a 4.5 defender will hit around 300 points (25p/m) which blows away Salah etc. Perma captain him though and his 466 points becomes 38.8 p/m.

      It’s therefore of limited value squeezing in too many premium players unless you plan on giving them the armband as they don’t represent the best value. Two premiums to start at most (Aubameyang and Salah) for me.

      A back 5 of Robertson, TAA, Tarkowski, Digne and Doherty costs 32m and returned 821 points (25.7 p/m). You could mix up the selection to add in other premiums and attempt the odd transfer for fixtures or form hope to improve on that 821 figure to get even better value.

      It therefore makes more sense to pack the defence, pick and stick your key premiums and then not get too hung up over big names as Ayew at 6.0 (22p/m) can provide the same of better value than Vardy (21p/m).

      Over a whole season, or even a run of fixtures. You will get better returns out of a flexible squad with good fixtures than squeezing 2 or 3 premiums and sitting on them.

      1. TomSaints
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 6 Years
        3 years, 7 months ago

        The caveat to the above figures is they use this seasons prices on last seasons points.

        The trick is catching players like Ings who will outperform their value for a long period.

        It’s not realistic to jump on every bandwagon or avoid every trap. 3 premium and 2 rotating 4.5 is hands down the best value return in the game.

        Hits can be limited by a solid player base and allow you to focus transfers on streaky players and nice fixtures

        1. TopMarx
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • Has Moderation Rights
          • 11 Years
          3 years, 7 months ago

          Yeah that's the point: this season's price is based on last season's points (in part) so there are unlikely to be many mid/forwards that offer amazing points per million. But Ings, even if you got him later on, offered exceptional value if you kept him for decent period: between 33 and 27 ppm. Who will be this year's Danny Ings?

          I think with any transfer you aim/hope that player will survive in your side because they will continue to deliver returns, but you need to identify when form changes, for instance fixture difficulty, fixture congestion, injury, etc. The research makes the game fun for me.

          1. TomSaints
            • Fantasy Football Scout Member
            • 6 Years
            3 years, 7 months ago

            Love the research - wish I had a job to get paid looking at these types of detail haha

      2. TAArt
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 5 Years
        3 years, 7 months ago

        Thanks for your post Tom. After reading it and the Darren Wiles article I’ve restructured my team to a 4-4-2 and effectively swapped Van Dijk in for Antonio. There is actually a real lack of quality sub 6.5 options but plenty of defenders at that bracket who are very unlikely to be out scored by a midfielder or attacker of the same price. My general approach this year is to try and get players in my team that I think offer the most value, and that still allows me Salah, Fernandes and Werner as captain choices that can be shifted easily to other options like Auba, Sterling, De Bruyne, Aguero, Kane etc in one or two transfers. My current draft squad:
        McCarthy / Button
        TAA / Van Dijk / Doherty / AWB / Mitchell
        Salah / Foden / ASM / Soucek / Son (1.5 itb to change to Fernandes)
        Werner / Ings / Davis
        I’m pretty confident Ferguson will become a 4.0 defender to replace Mitchell to give me an extra bench player and with a bit of luck Brewster might move which would be superb. Soucek is 1st sub currently but could also be changed to a 4.5 mid to give another 4.5 defender.

        1. TomSaints
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 6 Years
          3 years, 7 months ago

          I really like the team and general approach which I’m trying to follow. A 5th playing 4.0 defender is a good enabler to start but I’ll be looking for a nailed Burnley 4.5 or promoted played ASAP.

          I want 4 defenders each week, a couple steady mid price options and then a punt or two. Get to Christmas and hopefully be around top 100-200k and then kick on

    6. mixology
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 11 Years
      3 years, 7 months ago

      The Big at the Back strategy has plagued me the last two seasons, yet I am still a strong believer (as well as thick and stubborn)

      Some great points mentioned above regarding Ings and and mids/strikers at the same price as premium defenders (6+). So hard to catch these budget attackers at the right time, but when accomplished it’s huge. One haul from the likes of Mitro, or Che Adams, or ASM/Mount and you may score more in 1 gw than a premium defender might over 3-4 gameweeeks if they fail to keep a CS (and we’ve seen this with Liverpool, City) the last two seasons, especially in the start of the season. I believe it was 3 seasons ago where the clean sheets were consistent from the very beginning of the season for the top sides.

      The one huge mistake I’ve made the past two seasons is discounting the likelihood of potential returns from budget defenders (Lundstram, AWB) and keeping premiums over bringing these high value picks in. Seems really daft in hindsight but I believe that having 3-4 premiums and optimal in order to jump on a budget defender if one emerges. Although the emergence of a AWB or Lundstram is always unlikely.

      1. TomSaints
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 6 Years
        3 years, 7 months ago

        There’s value in all defenders and I just can’t understand having 2 fully benched 4.0 or fodder.

        A 4.5 can return 90-100 points set and forget. Rotate out tough games and you can boost this another 20-30 points. That blows every glamorous attacker out the water

        1. Eleven Hag
          • 6 Years
          3 years, 7 months ago

          Which two 4.5s are you going with this year?

          1. TomSaints
            • Fantasy Football Scout Member
            • 6 Years
            3 years, 7 months ago

            I’m going TAA, Digne, Tierney for sure. Debating having a united defender benched GW 1 and possibly Justin at 4.5.

            When I wildcard after gw4 I’ll look to get TAA, Robertson, maybe Doherty, United defender plus 4.5-5 form from someone like Burnley

        2. VinMar
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 7 Years
          3 years, 7 months ago

          Thoughts on this

          Mcarthy

          Taa, Robbo, Digne, Doherty, Tierney

          Auba, Alli, Havertz

          DCL, Ings

          (4.0, 4.5, 4.5, 4.5)
          Gwk 2: Ings to Martial
          Gwk 3: Auba to Sterlling + maybe Tierney to Mci/wolves

          1. TomSaints
            • Fantasy Football Scout Member
            • 6 Years
            3 years, 7 months ago

            I think that’s a really good team. I’m a little nervous on Liverpool defence early doors so I’m maybe looking at Robbo to Justin so I can get Son and a stronger bench.

            I’m almost certainly wcing GW 5 for international break after teams settle.

            1. VinMar
              • Fantasy Football Scout Member
              • 7 Years
              3 years, 7 months ago

              I could start with Egan and switch Robbo gwk 4. You think Son is worth the extra mill over alli?

              1. TomSaints
                • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                • 6 Years
                3 years, 7 months ago

                Liverpool are capable of making fools of us but I do think Son is better than Alli and I’ve managed to fund Werner over Havertz (though he may be better long term) through compromising on defence a bit. Being a bit more punty as I’m
                Wildcarding after gw4 where I’ll reset premium defenders.

          2. Trickster72
            • 8 Years
            3 years, 7 months ago

            Good team, what are your thoughts on my current draft?
            McCarthy
            Tierney, James, Robertson
            Auba, Salah, Son, Ceballos
            Jiminez, Ings, Wilson
            Subs x2 4.0 Def, x1 4.5 Mid

            1. VinMar
              • Fantasy Football Scout Member
              • 7 Years
              3 years, 7 months ago

              who knows if james will start, might do davies instead of ceballos

      2. TopMarx
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • Has Moderation Rights
        • 11 Years
        3 years, 7 months ago

        Yes exactly - there may be value in premium defenders but don't ignore budget defenders as they may offer even better value.

        1. TomSaints
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 6 Years
          3 years, 7 months ago

          Very true. Leeds full backs may be good plus always a chance of OOP like Lundstram.

          Overall though a premium defender in a good team who also has some attacking returns is worth every penny.

    7. 3 A
      • 8 Years
      3 years, 7 months ago

      What should we do is try to find the in form players. Its not just the defenders. It can be 6.0 Ings, or 5.5 Mahrez at Leicester.

      There is where value comes. So guys, is not about try to have more defenders in your team.

      Its about to catch most in form players.

      If their performance decrese, just tranfer them out.

      Cheers.

      1. ChuckN
        • 14 Years
        3 years, 7 months ago

        Yep although the key with this is that your underpriced Mahrez's, Ings's, Kane's of the world are pretty obvious once they get going so it's crucial to grab them for damage limitation due to high ownership.

        Very difficult to get on them from their first game but it's how you react that makes the difference. Being stubborn or saying "it's too late" can really hurt you in the long term.

        1. 3 A
          • 8 Years
          3 years, 7 months ago

          Yes man. Thats right. Value is not about defenders. Its about underprice players.

          Let me say some of them.

          The clear one is Soucek. Unfortunatly, the fixtures is not there.

          Adams too.

          1. ChuckN
            • 14 Years
            3 years, 7 months ago

            Spot on.

            The double-edged sword with big-at-the-back is that yes, the value to be found with premium defenders is also amplified in the 4.5 - 5.0m range which you cannot find anywhere else in your squad. Every decision affects another decision somewhere else in your squad.

            So by going 4 or 5 premium defenders (which I'd love to do btw) means you miss out on the absolute best 4.5 - 5.0m defenders available, thereby costing yourself budget further up the pitch.

            1. Green O' The South
              • Fantasy Football Scout Member
              • 10 Years
              3 years, 7 months ago

              You’re spot on. Made my point for me better than I could have. Plethora of budget defence options but no reliable 4.5 mids, let alone forwards.

              Couple of premium defenders and rotate 4.5 for third, fourth spot is the way to go.

    8. scubasmithy
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 8 Years
      3 years, 7 months ago

      You got a defender and midfielder left to pick and you have 11.5....
      If you are playing both, there is value also in getting a 4.5 def and a 6.5 mid. Look at the points from last year, traore and dunk are as good as Robertson and a 4.5 mid and 0.5 cheaper

      1. ChuckN
        • 14 Years
        3 years, 7 months ago

        Sure, but anyone playing a 4.5 mid in their starting XI is doing it wrong. So it's a poor comparison.

        In your example:

        The 4.5 def and 6.5 mid are both in your starting XI.

        Robertson would be, but the 4.5 mid wouldn't.

    9. Witty Pun: Not good at this…
      • 7 Years
      3 years, 7 months ago

      One of the things that is hardest to quantify about this approach is that often, there are budget defenders who will also perform very well (in relative terms of course, no 4.0 will ever likely approach what Doherty or TAA accomplished last season). So often, with only 1 or 2 premiums, one can still have a strong performing defence, and have more money to spend on attacking players.

  3. SwissWavey
    • 10 Years
    3 years, 7 months ago

    In the last 3 hours I've moved from a cheap defence to a very expensive one. I'm undecided but am trying hard to convince myself it's a good idea.
    The big drawback is how many tasty players you have to leave out. And I'm not sure it will be as much fun!

    1. TopMarx
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • Has Moderation Rights
      • 11 Years
      3 years, 7 months ago

      Yeah I don't like starting with a team I know I will want to change after a few GWs (unless that's the plan because I want to Wildcard!) The flip side to this is that I remember a couple of seasons ago Magnus Carlsen had 4 premium attackers (costing over £11.0m) at the halfway point, he was close to the top 100 at the time before he dropped back to around 24k. So a completely different approach can also work.

    2. FPL Theorist
      • 4 Years
      3 years, 7 months ago

      You really do have to believe in your team however you have decided to structure it. But there's not just one way to do it. Darren's team has two playing budget midfielders and two playing budget forwards, at least for week 1. Vinmar's team above has none. Very different approaches!

    3. scubasmithy
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 8 Years
      3 years, 7 months ago

      I want a settled defence ideally, only maybe a transfer every 4 or 5 weeks and none early on.

      TAA, Doherty, Saiss, Shaw gives me this. - worth the cost I feel as the value is strong.

  4. domadilla
    • 7 Years
    3 years, 7 months ago

    Can someone explain why ASM is such a popular pick? His stats are not great... is it the eye test or is he playing up top?!

    1. Now I'm Panicking
      • 9 Years
      3 years, 7 months ago

      5.5

      1. domadilla
        • 7 Years
        3 years, 7 months ago

        No alternatives?

        1. Ruud vom Mistelroum
          • 5 Years
          3 years, 7 months ago

          Do you reckon Saka will get a lot of games for Arsenal?

          1. Baps hunter
            • Fantasy Football Scout Member
            • 6 Years
            3 years, 7 months ago

            Does it matter? He has two good fixtures and then he has to go.

            1. Ruud vom Mistelroum
              • 5 Years
              3 years, 7 months ago

              Yea I guess. I'm a bit wary of the massive ownership for ASM though. I feel like he'll drop value quick without a goal early on

            2. scubasmithy
              • Fantasy Football Scout Member
              • 8 Years
              3 years, 7 months ago

              Hit waiting to happen

  5. Baps hunter
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 6 Years
    3 years, 7 months ago

    One thing that matters, is that we do have budget to use and starting 4.5 defenders who offer some value. We are forced to have at least 5 mids and forwards and we need starting bench players. Since cheapest starting mids and forwards cost more money we have to compare the extra money we use and how much we get extra gain from it in each position.

    Creating decent tv allows us to go big at the back later and still afford good players elsewhere. We are not forced to use same strategy all the time. Jumping on the right bandwagons like Ings is, or at least should be doable. Naturally there is luck and skill involved

    1. FPL Theorist
      • 4 Years
      3 years, 7 months ago

      Team value is certainly one of the more obvious weaknesses of any strategy that strays from the template. I am willing to offset this weakness when possible by making early transfers on players who are clearly going to rise in price.

      On the WGTA pod, one of the guys talked about a time when he transferred in Charlie Austin early before a mid-week game that he wasn't expecting Austin to play in, but Austin did play and got injured. The chance of this disaster actually happening was maybe 1%. I believe you gain more from the 99% of times that it goes right than you lose from the 1% of times where you manage the risk appropriately and it still goes wrong. If you wind up taking a -8 in this situation 1% of the time, you only have to gain just over 0.08 points on average from the other 99% to get a positive expected value from doing the early transfer.

      In behavioural economics, the disaster is what you would call a "salient" event. In this case, the podcaster totally forgot about all the times that an early transfer was beneficial and concluded that it "always" goes wrong, so he decided he should make a rule to never do it again. He wasn't unusually irrational; he was just human.

      1. TomSaints
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 6 Years
        3 years, 7 months ago

        Quality of comment beneath this article is top notch tonight!

        The same behavioural point can be made in do many ways in fantasy football. It feels more exciting having a playing getting big double digit returns and chasing points, but Jiminez slowly chipping away likely does as well or better.

    2. TopMarx
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • Has Moderation Rights
      • 11 Years
      3 years, 7 months ago

      Completely agree!

  6. Baines on Toast...
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 13 Years
    3 years, 7 months ago

    Every season there are about 10 versions of this article because the only data people have to go on is price point and end of season total.

    The reality of the game is far more complex. In particular, the stock market elements introduced by transfers mean that by the end players are playing with a much bigger budget.

    1. TopMarx
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • Has Moderation Rights
      • 11 Years
      3 years, 7 months ago

      Very true. However, I do think it's helpful to look at value and instead of just points returns. I agree that it is more complex.

    2. ChuckN
      • 14 Years
      3 years, 7 months ago

      I wouldn't call 5% (105m for most) a much bigger budget.

      1. Witty Pun: Not good at this…
        • 7 Years
        3 years, 7 months ago

        It's actually the difference between 36 and 41 million to spend, or a 13% difference.

        1. ChuckN
          • 14 Years
          3 years, 7 months ago

          Not sure how you've pulled those figures but I'd you're talking about base price you can't just use 4m x 15 players.

          The absolute lowest this season you could roll out a starting XI of decent nailed players is around 76m.

          1. Witty Pun: Not good at this…
            • 7 Years
            3 years, 7 months ago

            Having a 100 million budget is a myth, because 64 million is the minimum that must be spent on all 15 positions - what you're left with is 36 million to use where you see fit.

            1. ChuckN
              • 14 Years
              3 years, 7 months ago

              Maybe if you want to score 10 points each week.

              The true minimum base spend is closer to 76m this season, for example no forwards under 6 will score anything worthwhile.

        2. ChuckN
          • 14 Years
          3 years, 7 months ago

          *if

  7. SteJ
    • 4 Years
    3 years, 7 months ago

    Is the data available to see what team one would have chosen using big at the back for the 19/20 season based on 18/19 performance? It would be interesting to know how suchba ghost team would have performed.

    It's alsonquite interesting that clean sheets are generally a result of the team playing well whereas goals often come from individual brilliance.

    I'd imagine you have more consistency with high scoring defenders but the goalscorers will have higher variance. Goalscorers can also get multiple goals but defenders only one clean sheet in a given match. This means you steal a march on the opposition if you can rotate premium goalscorers and captain better than the next guy.
    I guess ings last year and costa a few years back were fairly consistent scorers who only tended to get one goal but quite often so their profile would be similar to a premium defender.
    It's an interesting strategy, but I think it needs blending with something else, like upside chasing

    1. FPL Theorist
      • 4 Years
      3 years, 7 months ago

      As Kieren mentioned, for a defender the equivalent of a multiple-goal game is a clean sheet plus attacking return(s). Which is not uncommon for the best defenders.

  8. Purse83
    • 5 Years
    3 years, 7 months ago

    Team virtually finished however keep changing the following:

    1) Werner & Egan/Davies (have Doc) or DCL & Robbo

    and

    2) ASM & Davis (bench) or C.Wilson & Bissouma (bench)

    Thoughts appreciated.

  9. Nightcrawler
    • 4 Years
    3 years, 7 months ago

    Whats a buur and why shd u have it

  10. ashleylondt2627@gmail.com
    • 3 Years
    3 years, 7 months ago

    Thoughts on the team gents?

    Gomez, Alderwerd, Soyuncu

    Saint-Mazim, Auba, Mane, Saka

    Antonio, INgs, Kane

  11. Bluejays and Horseplay
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 5 Years
    3 years, 7 months ago

    The call to make here is not whether TAA, Robertson, Doherty are over a season going to outscore equivalent priced mids and forwards - they are.

    For me it's not about whether I have to choose between say Doherty or Ward-Prowse for the long run. Unless their form massively changes that's obvious. It's more whether I've got funds to look at say Rashford, Son (or now Havertz) alongside the top premiums if and when the fixtures look good for that.

    Loading up on premium defenders reduces flexibility in the rest of the team. And there's fewer of them to pick from. It depend how you want to play but I've definitely had more problems getting boxed in by picks I can't easily change, than when it's flexible.

  12. circusmonkey
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 13 Years
    3 years, 7 months ago

    Excellent article because it validates me. I have 2x Liverpool, Doherty and might change my one City player on the bench from naughty boy to Laporte.

  13. Chemical76
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 5 Years
    3 years, 7 months ago

    FPL Draft

    I managed to get the Liverpool back 5, so I'll see how "big at the back" plays out in this parallel version of FPL.

  14. mrrahrah
    • 14 Years
    3 years, 7 months ago

    Hi all, is anyone able to provide a little bit of background on marcal and whether he is going to start for wolves? Am in right in saying he will be installed at right back/ right wing?

    Thanks

  15. Creme de la Prem
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 5 Years
    3 years, 7 months ago

    Excellent article - thanks!

  16. The Minus Fours
    • 4 Years
    3 years, 7 months ago

    I don't want to post my team now for fear of it becoming the new template 😉