[sbu_large_image] Site Features
4 January 2013 3294 comments
Mark Mark
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Following the conclusion of Gameweek 21, we’ve updated both the Career Hall of Fame and the Live version for members. The Career version now includes all new additions to the Fantasy Football Scout leagues and is viewable to all via this link or a new top menu “HoF” link. This table will be updated every week with new entrants.

The “Live” version of the Hall of Fame, available to our Members, has been updated to include points earned in Gameweek 21. This will be updated with the latest rankings 24-hours after the conclusion of every Gameweek from this point on.

If you missed our meeting, emails and telegrams on the Hall of Fame and wondering what all this chatter is about, look below for a quick guide. Alternatively, you can view this movie to listen to myself and Rate My Team’s Chris Atkinson talk you through it.

What is the Hall of Fame?
In simple terms, this is as ranking system which can be applied to everyone in our Fantasy Premier Leauge mini-leagues – both the free and the members league. The Hall of Fame tracks the performances of every manager over each of the seasons they have participated and awards a ranking according to the performances. We have a career table that updates every season and a live table that will be updated using the latest season data, after every Gameweek.

How is my rating calculated?
The “HoF Rating” is based on your points scores from previous FPL seasons, with the latest season weighted the heaviest and each corresponding season weighted at roughly 80% that of the previous season. So, in other words, those who performed best in 2011/12 will receive a bigger HoF Rating boost from those who did best in 2006/07. The “HoF Ranking” even allows for those with missing years, adapting the formula accordingly to allow to rank alongside the veterans of the FPL.

How do I join the Hall of Fame
Simply sign up to our leagues, either the Fantasy Football Scout Classic League (40184-13425), or if you’re a member, the Members Classic League – the code is available on the dashboard of the Members Area.

How do I find myself in the Hall of Fame?
The search box at the top of the ranking tables allows you to search by surname or by FPL id.

What if I don’t want to be listed?
Either notify us via support@fantasyfootballscout.co.uk or simply leave the Fantasy Football Scout league and you’ll be removed on the next update.

When does the Hall of Fame get updated?
The Career table is available to all and is updated at the end of each season to display the latest rankings.

The Live version of the Hall of Fame is updated every week to use the latest season data. This version will only be available to our members in the Members Area. If you wish to get access to the live version, you can sign up as a member – our half season memberships are now available for just £10. Click here for details on upgrading your account or signing up.

Mark Mark created the beast. He's now looking to tame it.

3,294 Comments Login to Post a Comment
  1. Reacher
    • 16 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    Many people left in the cup? & how many is approx left in overall?

    Only asking because i normally go out 1st round but i'm still hanging in there ATM

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    1. SpinyNorman [*_*]
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      I am

      And it's down to the final 132,072

      🙂

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      1. Reacher
        • 16 Years
        13 years, 6 months ago

        Nice 🙂

        We can but dream Spiny

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        1. SpinyNorman [*_*]
          • 14 Years
          13 years, 6 months ago

          See you in the final 😀

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          1. Reacher
            • 16 Years
            13 years, 6 months ago

            Halfs? ( if thers a prize?) 🙂

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  2. skooldaze
    • 15 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    So I finished:

    6652 and 5580 in the last couple of seasons. If I hadn't had started 4 seasons before that (well 6 seasons seeing as this is my 9th season!) would I have got a higher score?

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    1. TorresMagic™
      • Has Moderation Rights
      • 17 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Is that your link?

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  3. Sammy
    • 15 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    How come fellaini and bales prices haven't moved on FISO?

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    1. SPorting
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      did you press F5 and refresh the page?

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    2. Captain Robert Hatch
      • 15 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      price locked due to recent removal of red flag

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    3. 4vets
      • 15 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      After the red flag is removed their prices is protected from rises or falls for about 8 days.

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      1. 4vets
        • 15 Years
        13 years, 6 months ago

        *are

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        1. SPorting
          • 14 Years
          13 years, 6 months ago

          jim lad!

          shiver me timbers!

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  4. @FPLMason
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    Guys this is my 3rd time posting this question
    Is Nolan's price protected?

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    1. 4vets
      • 15 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Looks like it.

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    2. skooldaze
      • 15 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      I dont believe so

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    3. Jimmers
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 16 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Yes Yes Yes

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    4. Sean.
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      yea atm

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    5. Jafalad
      • 16 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Check on Fiso: http://www.fiso.co.uk/crackthecode.php

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    6. @FPLMason
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Thanks everybody :).

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  5. FPL Daniel
    • 17 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    Who are we benching for the doubles from our front 8? My head hurts I want to play all of them

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    1. 4vets
      • 15 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      ??? 😯

      Guthire of course!

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      1. FPL Daniel
        • 17 Years
        13 years, 6 months ago

        I think Berb in GW 23, but I don;t know who in GW 22

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        1. Evans
          • 13 Years
          13 years, 6 months ago

          Use rate my team to decide

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  6. Timmy Cahill Rules
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    So tempted to do Lambert (C)

    If its a DGW

    got a goal and 2 assists v stoke so could score big v villa+ is on pens and anything from chel away would be a bonus.

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    1. Wrong Captain Choice - Ag i…
      • 17 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Benteke is currently my VC.

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    2. onionbarje
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      if you don't have mata, then why not

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      1. Timmy Cahill Rules
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 6 months ago

        i have both

        fear rafatation though

        but if mata sparkles he could do a theo for me

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        1. onionbarje
          • 14 Years
          13 years, 6 months ago

          he can't rest mata, after losing to QPR. Look what happened to there previous manager

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          1. Timmy Cahill Rules
            • 14 Years
            13 years, 6 months ago

            true

            mata (C)

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  7. patshaw
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    pls help guys, its to crazy to do a -8 hit?

    myhill to tunbull - gj to azpi - morrison to mata - tevez to lambert (to free founds)

    or

    just get turnbull and luiz o ivan for free?

    my team:

    bego myhill
    gj cuellar r.benett nasta demel
    walcott morrison bale michu punch
    suarez rvp tevez

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  8. Voodoo
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    What is this red flag?

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    1. heartsattack
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Are you in China?

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      1. Voodoo
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 6 months ago

        No Hersonissos.

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    2. 1966 was a great year for E…
      • 15 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      The song of the people, railing against their capitalist oppressors.

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    3. Jimmers
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 16 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      When a player is injured/suspended and the box below his name is red (usually blue)

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      1. Voodoo
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 6 months ago

        Cheers mate. First season playing FPL!

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  9. JT's Dog
    13 years, 6 months ago

    Is it only members who can use the hall of fame search

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      1. JT's Dog
        13 years, 6 months ago

        Link is taking me to top people on list but sign in details are empty and it is saying I don't exist

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        1. Lanley Staurel
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 15 Years
          13 years, 6 months ago

          Who said that?

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  10. Hot Sauce
    • 13 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    Repostin, need to know if this is legit

    The leader in my friends league is 60 pts ahead of me. I only have the Jan WC. My other friends have used theyre WC, without knowing the potential che sot DGW.

    I’m thinking.

    Jaask, Begovic
    Luiz, Gibbs, Clyne, Azp, Demel
    Puncheon, Walcott, Mata, Bale, Fellaini
    RVP, Lambert, Berbatov.

    3 sto, 3 che, 2 WH, 2, ars. One or two che, sot become Ars WH players the week after.

    Keeping this mid, and forward line next gameweeks. Keeping the gk. Luiz, Gibbs, Mata will go out next gameweeks after the DGW, for davies, stoke def and michu And the cash will upgrade one of the forwards to aguero?

    Good plan?

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    1. John Nerdelbaum
      • 13 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Bit of a benching nightmare like my proposed WC team below. I imagine you will bench Walcott and Gibbs and Demel. Looks fine in theory but I'm starting to think that Mata and Lambert will be OK for this one

      No Suarez?

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    2. Lanley Staurel
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 15 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Help me out here. Why have you taken a gazillion hits this season?

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  11. John Nerdelbaum
    • 13 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    Sorry one more repost just to canvas some more opinions?

    Potential WC team if there is a Chelsea/Soton win tomorrow. No Chelski and only one Soton (Punch) so would have to WC

    Feel free to rip it to shreds

    Turnball* Bego

    Baines Azpil* Shaw* Demel* Davies

    Bale* Mata* Theo Michu Punch

    RVP Suarez Lambert*

    Bale is coming in for Silva no matter what! Baines is my luxury item but I really want to keep even though Luiz/Azpil and Gibbs makes more sense

    Is this OK to muddle me through?

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    1. John Nerdelbaum
      • 13 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      It would leave me with 0.9

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    2. Paolo Di Laernu - low rep r…
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      So you are saying you want to w/c to get this team? It looks like a good team to have for the DGW but are you sure you want to w/c to get it? Wouldn't you spend a lot of time fixing your team to get rid of some players?

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      1. John Nerdelbaum
        • 13 Years
        13 years, 6 months ago

        Yeah, I don't really want to do it. Might just bring Mata in and hope for the best. What are you doing?

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      2. John Nerdelbaum
        • 13 Years
        13 years, 6 months ago

        Looking at it, I don't know if I would need to do too much though. Maybe Pod back in for Lambert for next GW and DG Mata > Fell. The defence doesn't seem that bad...

        I have to be honest I did see Chrissy Waddle's one yesterday with Suarez, Aguero and RVP *drool*

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  12. Paolo Di Laernu - low rep r…
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    double gameweeks are getting harder to ignore

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    1. The Invincibles
      • 13 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Don't think it's worth chasing at all froma Southampton perspective. As for Chelsea, how much will Rafa rotate? Want Hazard and Mata but can't bring myself to do it just yet.

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      1. Timmy Cahill Rules
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 6 months ago

        mata and lambert is plenty IMO

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    2. COMH
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      I've had Clyne and Puncheon for ages. And I will get at least 2 Chelsea in.

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    3. Optimus.
      • 15 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      😀

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  13. fdotman
    • 13 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    RMWCT, took ages to pick
    http://i.imgur.com/xmkkO.png

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    1. heartsattack
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Pointless.

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    2. Thomass
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Way too much

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    3. Jafalad
      • 16 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Nice. Pity it's 20 mill over budget.

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    4. Gr3g
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Stupid...

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  14. alsybach
    • 16 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    I wonder if Luiz Suarez has got a release clause just in case a big club gets interested..........

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    1. Voodoo
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Nope.

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  15. King Kohli
    • 13 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    When is the Che-Sou dgw?

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    1. onionbarje
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      This GW

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      1. King Kohli
        • 13 Years
        13 years, 6 months ago

        How come?
        Its not even put up in the fixtures yet

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        1. onionbarje
          • 14 Years
          13 years, 6 months ago

          well if there is a draw in the fa cup game between the saints and chelsea, then it won't go on. but once there is a result, it will be this GW

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        2. Declan-
          • 14 Years
          13 years, 6 months ago

          Depends on cup result tomorrow

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        3. Jimmers
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 16 Years
          13 years, 6 months ago

          dependent on cup result tomorrow - if a replay required no DGW

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    2. John Nerdelbaum
      • 13 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      If either Cheski or Soton win in the FA Cup tomorrow then it will be a DGW this week

      If it is a draw then they will play the replay this week

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    3. Heytch
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 15 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      I vote that FPL start GW23 early (midweek) with 2 DGs, rather than finish this round late, at late notice 🙂

      Everyone's used to needing to transfer midweek with xmas/new year still running right?!

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    4. King Kohli
      • 13 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Thanks a lot guys, had not been on all day so didn't have a clue.

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  16. onionbarje
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    oh dear i am rated 13281. I only joined 10/11 in the last 8 GWs and last year i made some rookie mistakes ending up ranked 600,000

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  17. mufc802
    • 16 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    Ba or Mata?

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    1. heartsattack
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Mata

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      1. COMH
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 6 months ago

        Mata

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      2. heartsattack
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 6 months ago

        Mata is win win, if Torres plays we already knw the scores Mata gets, if Ba plays the potential for assists is amazing.

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        1. Voodoo
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 14 Years
          13 years, 6 months ago

          And with your rank how can he dismiss?

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          1. heartsattack
            • 14 Years
            13 years, 6 months ago

            Nice. Come back to me when the season is over. Arse.

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            1. Voodoo
              • Fantasy Football Scout Member
              • 14 Years
              13 years, 6 months ago

              Calm down you girl haha

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              1. heartsattack
                • 14 Years
                13 years, 6 months ago

                Yeah. See below.

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          2. Voodoo
            • Fantasy Football Scout Member
            • 14 Years
            13 years, 6 months ago

            Wrong person sorry!

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            1. heartsattack
              • 14 Years
              13 years, 6 months ago

              Um.. Apologies back I guess 😳

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              1. Voodoo
                • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                • 14 Years
                13 years, 6 months ago

                No problem mate, my fault entirely..

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              2. onionbarje
                • 14 Years
                13 years, 6 months ago

                AKWARD

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                1. heartsattack
                  • 14 Years
                  13 years, 6 months ago

                  😆

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    2. Voodoo
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Ba!

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  18. TorresMagic™
    • Has Moderation Rights
    • 17 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    HOF = 94.45

    57th, higher than expected. 🙂

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    1. FPL Daniel
      • 17 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Well done and jealous too 😉

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    2. Jafalad
      • 16 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      I want an enquiry! 😡 👿

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      1. TorresMagic™
        • Has Moderation Rights
        • 17 Years
        13 years, 6 months ago

        You would probably be ahead of me. Even if you started a new history link after a dismal 1st season. 😉

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  19. Sting
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 13 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    Is Azpilicueta going up on price tonight ?

    I wanted to wait until after tomorrow's game.

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    1. Voodoo
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      No he's rising at a snails pace.

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    2. COMH
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      He needs another 500+ transfers in. He might go up tonight or crawl to £5.7 in a day or so.

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    3. Nice to Michu
      • 13 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      needs about 580 more transfers, has only had 143 all day, so probably not

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    4. Parm
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Nope.

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  20. The Rock
    • 17 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    Advise? now the best time to use WC?

    Begovic, Bunn
    Hangeland, Cuellar, Mertesacker, Caulkner, Enrique
    Carzola, Bale, Michu, Pienaar, Sidwell
    RVP, Berbatov, Defoe

    Have 2 free transfers and 0.7 in bank.

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  21. Super John McGinn-
    • 13 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    http://oi47.tinypic.com/saxir7.jpg

    Team A- 343 (0 Votes)
    Team B- 352 (2 Votes)
    Team C- DGW WC, using Lateriser12′s idea then ship out unwanted DGW players slowly after. (5 Votes, also Punch>Guthrie should be changed)

    Please have a look at my three wildcard teams, tell me which is best and why, also any hints tips or advice is much appreciated.

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    1. 4vets
      • 15 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Lazy MF! 😉

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    2. Thomass
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      A but would do Berba to Ruiz

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    3. onionbarje
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      C

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    4. John Nerdelbaum
      • 13 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      C if it is a DGW. I don’t think you can really go wrong with that (cue Azpili/Mata being rested) That’s the way I’m going to go but I really don’t want to lose Baines!

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  22. PogChamp
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    Are there any tech people from FFS here?

    I notice the hall of fame is listing user scores from the league. How are you sourcing the FPL data? I've asked them if they provide API services and they said no but judging by the HoF table that seems not be the case.

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  23. TorresMagic™
    • Has Moderation Rights
    • 17 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    Link to Laterisers post?

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    1. Jimmers
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 16 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      page 16 of DGW post

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  24. There's Always One!
    • 16 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    Mata, Bale, Fellaini, Walcott, Michu

    Why do people think it's a mistake to play this 5 man midfield?
    Walcott and Michu play as forwards , Fellaini if you ask me also plays upfront

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    1. 4vets
      • 15 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Who said it was a mistake?

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    2. The Invincibles
      • 13 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Because if everyone has the same team, the game becomes VERY boring.

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      1. Smellbobs
        • 13 Years
        13 years, 6 months ago

        yes its slightly more boring than the thrill of mark noble getting you 13 points but the only 2 times noble's got into double figuers I (1) benched him then (2) sold him. Gotta go with the inform horses and these 5 are most definitely consistent right now.

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        1. Dago
          • 16 Years
          13 years, 6 months ago

          is that mark fowler?

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    3. Super John McGinn-
      • 13 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      exactly what i'm thinking

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    4. Sean.
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      its good and will be very popular, i wont be going that way though

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    5. New Ghost
      • 13 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Because I don't want a crappy 3rd striker.

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      1. the axolotl
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 6 months ago

        ruiz?

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      2. There's Always One!
        • 16 Years
        13 years, 6 months ago

        No you will have a crappy 5th midfielder! Best of luck mate

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    6. Dago
      • 16 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Lose one of Mata or Bale and have three up top leaves you with 6 forwards. Thats the way Im going.

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      1. There's Always One!
        • 16 Years
        13 years, 6 months ago

        Both of them will score more points than alot of the big forwards

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    7. Paolo Di Laernu - low rep r…
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Walcott and Michu don't always play as forwards...for the sake of being a little pedantic.

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    8. In Tommy We Trust
      • 16 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Very few players perform at the same level for the whole season. Yes some will but not all. There will be others that will become a necessity

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      1. There's Always One!
        • 16 Years
        13 years, 6 months ago

        Yes but surely it's about the here and now

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    9. Gr3g
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Coz this way you surely not aiming high enough...

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  25. In Tommy We Trust
    • 16 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    Random question, how much relevance does previous season results have on the team this year out of 100.

    It a little thing for my ticker.

    Thanks in advance.

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    1. The Invincibles
      • 13 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Each year has 80% weighted compared to the previous year.

      2011/12: 80%
      2010/11: 16%
      2009/10: 3.2%
      2008: 0.64%

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      1. onionbarje
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 6 months ago

        so that explains my low ranking, last year was a shocker for me and the year before was worse as i came in at the end of the season

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      2. RMT's Professor
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 15 Years
        13 years, 6 months ago

        I stumbled across this and I thought I would correct some hideously bad maths. 😛

        2011/12: 80%
        2010/11: 64%
        2009/10: 51.2%
        2008/09: 40.96%
        2007/08: 32.768%
        2006/07: 26.2144%

        80% of 80% is 64% not 16%. You do 0.8 x 0.8 not 0.8 + 0.8

        Sorry, had to do it!

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  26. John Nerdelbaum
    • 13 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    This 'DGW' is doing my head in and it might not even happen. I'm off to watch In Bruges!

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    1. Optimus.
      • 15 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      good flick

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    2. Paolo Di Laernu - low rep r…
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      Funny film

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      1. John Nerdelbaum
        • 13 Years
        13 years, 6 months ago

        C if it is a DGW. I don't think you can really go wrong with that (cue Azpili/Mata being rested) That's the way I'm going to go but I really don't want to lose Baines!

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        1. Dago
          • 16 Years
          13 years, 6 months ago

          huge reply fail.

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          1. John Nerdelbaum
            • 13 Years
            13 years, 6 months ago

            Yep 🙁

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      2. John Nerdelbaum
        • 13 Years
        13 years, 6 months ago

        Oops that was to someone else. Chris Powell!

        While I'm here, you don't fancy a quick peek at my proposed DGW / WC team? ^

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        1. John Nerdelbaum
          • 13 Years
          13 years, 6 months ago

          It's not even Chris Powell, it's Benteke! I'll get my coat and go and watch In Bruge 🙂

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          1. Dago
            • 16 Years
            13 years, 6 months ago

            I would 🙂

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  27. Evans
    • 13 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    Rate my team seems like a good tool

    RVP & Surarez must have but Sagna comes out with more or less the same points zabelatta

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    1. heartsattack
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      With rotation risk it might not be too far out.

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    2. Voodoo
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      He has a game more but he has been poor recently so it probably makes sense.

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  28. Super John McGinn-
    • 13 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    A) Mata + Berbatov
    B) Ba + Fellaini

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    1. Dago
      • 16 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      A currently.

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  29. Elwood
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    With 2 DGW I am glad to save my wild card til gw 24.

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    1. Elwood
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      *potential

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  30. Paolo Di Laernu - low rep r…
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 6 months ago

    Historically, how often do 8/12 point hits pay off in a DGW?

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    1. The Invincibles
      • 13 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      About 25% of the time.

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    2. Sean.
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      trouble is you've got to transfer the guys out as well which incurs further hits
      i wont be overloading this time , its a marathon not a sprint 🙂

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    3. Optimus.
      • 15 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      did you ever see "the hitmans" gameweek history?...makes you sick and hes in top 100 i think

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    4. JK - Cønt ⭐
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 6 months ago

      depends, GW26 last year I took -8 to get ib VdV (c) he got me 44 points on his own

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