I prefer attacking def like Doherty rather than nailed ManU def with no attacking potential but if I look at Robertson who has both thats perfect combination.

Over the course of the season, you are definitely correct.

Defenders should be chosen for their points potential - whichever source they come from.

pretty important generally, although a player like Lovren (bonus & CSs) is also pretty good as you say. I agree that AWB is better than Bennett generally, and Doherty/Jonny are better than players like Diop imo. Obviously fixtures do come into it though for CS potential.

Good points made by you both. I think its somewhere in the middle. Personally my first basis for selecting a defender or gk is based on upcoming fixtures and I have to see enough good ones. Maybe 4 or 5 easy games out of 7 minimum. I believe fixtures bring form
That aside, my getting a more attacking defender then depends on combinations and budget. For instance if I Hypothetically have 11m to spend, my combo wont be Alonso and a 4.0 def, itll be trippier or mendy and them a Duffy or someone like that because I believe that combination will outscore the latter provided all have decent fixtures. I still primarily believe CS should be your main aim with defenders though we have some game changers this season in Mendy and Alonso has been pretty much the same the last couple of years.

Tough choice, but it really depends on their price. If you're going heavy on defence, there has to be attacking potentail.
So basically, below 6.0 its CS, above it is attacking returns

Attacking potential is important insofar as the attacking potential is an obvious advantage over someone else. For example, there is no reason why you would pick VVD over Robbo, when their CS chances are the same. Similarly, it's completely reasonable to think that Doherty outscores Bennett by over 20% over the season which makes the price difference more than worth it. It's trickier when comparing across teams, but a defender only needs a few attacking returns over the course of a season to make a huge difference to their points total. A defender with no goal threat can never score a 15 pointer, for example, whereas Doherty has, the equivalent of 2.5 games with clean sheets.

I think best value defenders overall are cheapest nailed defenders in defensively strong teams. Attacking returns for defenders are a bit of a lottery (look at how many people had PVA at start of year) so just a bonus to be considered if you have a bit spare at the start of the year/on a WC/FH.

A bit misquoted but fair. I agreed with you in a later reply that if you have two like for like assets then of course you would go for the more attacking player. BUT:

* you said you would NEVER start Bennett, but are happy to play Doherty as a 3rd defender. If they are a 4th defender than obviously saving the 0.6 on Bennett is the logical decision.

* wing backs will undoubtedly score the most points for defenders this season due to their attacking upside, however, those players will also come from teams with sound structure in defence and lots of clean sheets (City, Pool, Spurs, Chelsea etc.). The best form of defence is attack!

Such an argument always depends on the price. Premium defenders will definately need some attacking potential, but if you downgrade every premium attacking defender to their counterparts :

Alonso - D Luiz - a saving of 1.5m
Mendy - Laporte - saving of 0.5m
Robertson - VVD - saving of 0.5m
Trippier - Alderweld - saving of 0.4m

Now those defences will still get CS points, maybe not attacking points but attacking points should still be considered a rarity for defenders. I'd still expect 75% of defenders points to come from Clean sheets throughout the season.

The above gives a total saving of 2.4m - with that, you could upgrade Maddison to KDB/Mane with a slight downgrade elsewhere. That should maximise the output of the attack in the side, ensuring most attacking slots have a high ceiling for points and if the defensive assets in question regress attack wise you would be much better off by sticking to the cheaper defensive options.

Personally, I'll be ditching premium defenders on my WC as I see a big shift in focus soon as attacks become more prominent, meaning the Alonso's will need to stay back to concentrate on defensive duties even more, and if a cheaper defender blanks it doesn't hit you so hard as a cheaper option would.

First and foremost clean sheets, so the defender from a better defensive team (City) but with lower individual player attacking threat .... out trumps ... the attacking defender (Arsenal) with a lower clean sheet potential

I am with ibrox on this.

Cs is what i want from any defender. anything more than that I will consider it as bonus. And who says not so attacking defender can't give you attacking points ? They are the ones who are in the box during set pieces .

Also, less attacking defender means more defensive duties , which means more chance of getting bonus points.

Awb/Doherty is no Alonso. You won't start them if they play any of the big 6. But you will start Alonso irrespective of the opponent. This itself proves that clean sheet is the primary role of a defender UI

The order of priority for me is:

CS potential
Attacking potential
Bonus potential

I would never pick a defender based on attacking potential alone. I go for the defender in a solid team over a marauding full back in a team that concedes 3 regularly. If CS potential is similar then I look at which is more attacking or has more bonus potential; however I usually go for the more attacking defender over the one with more bonus potential but not always.

I enjoy the game more picking attacking defenders
Should I play Trippier (MCI) or Bennett (bha) this week?

As long as they have some extra potentia above clean sheetsl, I'm happy. Take Jones last year; his regular 8/9 pointers made all the difference.

Attacking/bonus potential is vital for those defenders we will play every week. For our bench options it’s not as important as it’s a lottery when attacking points will come in and when then bench will be used.

But for our staple defenders playing week in week out I wouldn’t even have one if they didn’t have attacking/bonus potential.

All a defender needs is an assist (3 points) and that’s nearly an extra clean sheet (4 points). Especially if it helps get at least one bonus point, then it’s already one extra clean sheet.

A defender who scores a goal and gets two bonus points from it, effectively gets an extra two clean sheets (8 points).

These circumstances can make huge differences, just like you prove with your point regarding Luiz and Alonso.

Choose your teams for clean sheets, choose your defenders/keepers for what else they bring over their colleagues.

I always go for attacking potential, if a defender gets an assist its 3 points, a clean sheet is 4, they lose the clean sheet its dead, but you still have the attacking points if you have a gung ho defender. He can earn you points even if there defending them mates let them down

Everything that effects a defenders score is important. If your reproducing Irbox's statements fairly, he's in the wrong imo.

things to consider re defenders are:
- probability of clean sheet
- probability of attacking return (goals and assists)
- probability of bonus (baseline bps)
- probability of picking up cards
- probability of getting negative points from goals conceded.
- certainty of playing and minutes

Lastly, price IS a consideration.

The only thing Bennet is better at then doherty is price and baseline bps. Meaning, its fair to assume that doherty is the best choice if the money isnt better spent elsewhere.

Defender should be chosen based on their expected points versus price, regardless of how they gain the points. You could have a very attacking defender on a terrible defensive team who scores the same points as a non attacking defender on a good defense. When you buy defenders in the 6+m range you're expecting high point returns in the range of 5 ppm and therefore need both clean sheets and attacking returns/bonus points, but for budget defenders it doesn't matter how the points are earned.

multiple-points route...