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  1. Justthis
    • 7 Years
    2 years, 2 months ago

    My son is on the City books and he says not a chance Erling wlll play this weekend. The rumour around the training ground is he will be sidelined for 2 -3 weeks.

    1. The FPL Units
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 15 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      Hope this is correct as I have already shipped Haaland.

      1. The Mentaculus
        • 4 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        When a random nudist makes such a claim here, check their comment history at the very least

        1. The FPL Units
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 15 Years
          2 years, 2 months ago

          Hence the use of the word hope.

          1. The Mentaculus
            • 4 Years
            2 years, 2 months ago

            I think this is likely correct (the 2 week part, not the source obviously) in any case & I'll be joining you in going no- Haaland

            1. The FPL Units
              • Fantasy Football Scout Member
              • 15 Years
              2 years, 2 months ago

              That's the conclusion I came to and has planned to move Haaland out in GW18 so it's just a week early. Still have WC to bring him back in if fit.

    2. Nate(U)dog(ie)
      • 5 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      My uncle that works at Nintendo said the next Zelda will feature Link as a playable character

    3. The Mentaculus
      • 4 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      Modest Bob the Lurker and famed existential thinker is also itk, wow! You've got it all!

    4. This is probably as worthwhile as most of the weird over-analysing that is going on about Haaland Senior's FPL team

  2. Warby84
    • 10 Years
    2 years, 2 months ago

    Crazy scenes in Turkey!!

    1. Rasping Drive
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 16 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      An absolute disgrace, and indicative that the AKP think they can do wtf they want and get away with it.

      1. The FPL Units
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 15 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        Kick them out of Europe comps.

      2. PartyTime
        • 4 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        Not AKP’s fault for ref getting smacked in the face tho…

        1. Rasping Drive
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 16 Years
          2 years, 2 months ago

          Yes, but the perpetrator was one of the party’s founding members. It’s all connected.

    2. aapoman
      • 12 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      what happened?

    3. Pumpkinhead - I'm ITK …
      • 16 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      But far although they do have that affect on you. Howard Webb is lucky he's not in Turkey. If he tried his nonsense over there he would be in an whole world of sh*t

      1. PartyTime
        • 4 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        😆

      2. OHareP
        • 4 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        And it is exactly these type of comments which don't help the abuse of referees, especially those at grassroots levels. Comments in the media and comments like yours on this message board peddal the message that us referees are 'fair game' for abuse - even when in law our decisons are correct. If football isn't careful it is going to caniabalise itself. How would you feel if your son/daughter was a referee on the end of the abuse that players and supporters dish out.

  3. The Knights Template
    • 12 Years
    2 years, 2 months ago

    Haaland to Raul for a hit? Yes, tis a real question!

    1. The FPL Units
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 15 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      Tis a real mystery

    2. FantasyClub
      • 5 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      I wouldn’t

    3. The Mentaculus
      • 4 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      Yea! I'm loading up a big hit that includes this move. Gone back to have a look at some Fulham/Bournemouth games & I'm siding with Jimé over Solanke

      1. The Knights Template
        • 12 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        A Jimmy in form is a fine thing!

    4. Nate(U)dog(ie)
      • 5 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      Probably doing this myself if Haaland seems/is confirmed out. Even from last week the man looks to really have regained some confidence which is great to see after the way things have gone for him in recent years

    5. Hairy Potter
      • 10 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      I prefer Cunha

    6. duke313
      • 2 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      Why do you need to take a hit? Have you already made a transfer?

  4. DARK SIDE OF THE LOON
    • 9 Years
    2 years, 2 months ago

    Haaland to Darwim it is then. Other forwards are Watkins and Solanke.

    1. The Knights Template
      • 12 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      I’m so sorry!

    2. Nate(U)dog(ie)
      • 5 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      As a Nunez owner of the last 6 weeks I implore you to reconsider

      1. duke313
        • 2 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        The haul is coming, have faith.

    3. The Mentaculus
      • 4 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      Eek, even I'm losing patience with Darwin now & I don't think he's a guaranteed starter v MUN (which I assume is who you're targeting)

    4. The FPL Units
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 15 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      I am benching Darwin this week.

    5. aapoman
      • 12 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      No way man! Raul is your choice then

  5. dansmith1985
    • 4 Years
    2 years, 2 months ago

    Thoughts here guys?

    1FT 1.7 bank

    Areola
    Lascelles Gabriel Tsimikas
    Son Palmer Saka Salah
    Isak Alvarez Haaland

    Kelleher Taylor Lamptey Anderson

    1. The Knights Template
      • 12 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      What are your concerns?

      1. dansmith1985
        • 4 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        My bench and no keeper?

        1. The Knights Template
          • 12 Years
          2 years, 2 months ago

          Leno

  6. Miguel Sanchez
    • 9 Years
    2 years, 2 months ago

    A) Konsa (bre) + Palmer (SHU)
    B) Solanke (LUT) + Porro (nfo) -4

    1. SpaceCadet
      • 12 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      A

  7. PartyTime
    • 4 Years
    2 years, 2 months ago

    Kane(C) UCL fantasy. Just need a hat-trick.

    1. The Mentaculus
      • 4 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      You a Bayern fan? Any advice on lineups? I have Kane, Sané & Fonz already.

      My favourite MD of the season when I take a bunch of hits & still end up with half my squad rested... 😕

      1. PartyTime
        • 4 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        Kane & Sané are nailed imo. Their link-up play is exceptional. Phonzie was pants at the weekend but it is manchester utd. Triple Bayern attack for me.

        1. The Mentaculus
          • 4 Years
          2 years, 2 months ago

          Danke schön. I shall stick then

      2. PartyTime
        • 4 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        We have qualified but we still need to bounce back from the defeat on Saturday so I’m expecting a pretty strong lineup with rotation probably at the back. Kane Coman Sané are my attackers.

        1. Herger
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 4 Years
          2 years, 2 months ago

          You are going down tonight no matter how you lineup

  8. Flynny
    • 10 Years
    2 years, 2 months ago

    The watkins to darwin move has been a disaster

    If darw8n plays the majority of the European game on Thurs it might need a hit to get rid - as assume he could then be benched by klopp for united

    1. KeanosMagic
      • 4 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      If I was Klopp I'd be looking at United as an opportunity to give him some confidence! We are absolute tosh!

      1. The Mentaculus
        • 4 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        That's why I think he might start against USG though

      2. The Knights Template
        • 12 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        He has shovelfeet!

        1. KeanosMagic
          • 4 Years
          2 years, 2 months ago

          Onana has shovelhands!

          It will be an intriguing matchup

          1. The Knights Template
            • 12 Years
            2 years, 2 months ago

            Noooonan is execrable! Onanist 1 - Noooonan 0

            1. KeanosMagic
              • 4 Years
              2 years, 2 months ago

              Too much mead, sire?

      3. duke313
        • 2 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        United is the last chance i'm giving him.

    2. PartyTime
      • 4 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      Yes, sell if that’s the case on Thursday

  9. the dom 1
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 11 Years
    2 years, 2 months ago

    What would you do with this team if you had 1 FT & 1.5 ITB ???

    Dubravka
    Tsimikas, Zinchenko, Lascelles
    Palmer, Salah, Bowen, Hee Chan, Son
    J. Alvarez, Watkins

    Areola, Haaland*, Andersen, Lamptey*

    Thoughts please?

    1. Team Bobcat
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      I like a simple lamprey to Mykeleko or Braithwaite

  10. KeanosMagic
    • 4 Years
    2 years, 2 months ago

    Haaland to Watkins worth a hit?

    1. Miguel Sanchez
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      Not this week vs Brentford depending on who your first bench option is

      1. KeanosMagic
        • 4 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        Archer or Pinnock on my bench. Probably Archer

        1. Miguel Sanchez
          • 9 Years
          2 years, 2 months ago

          Tricky, Chelsea are tosh too so Archer could get something there

      2. Nate(U)dog(ie)
        • 5 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        Brentford just lost to Sheffield Utd!

        1. duke313
          • 2 Years
          2 years, 2 months ago

          Anyone can beat anyone on their day. Brentford will be at home this weekend against a leggy Villa, who will be without Luiz and Digne.

          1. Nate(U)dog(ie)
            • 5 Years
            2 years, 2 months ago

            Not sure they'll be that leggy, imagine a second-string side will play in Europe, Moreno is a more than capable replacement for Digne (heck he kept him out of the side until his injury)

    2. Planet Head
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 8 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      Only if you still have other City or Brentford assets to offload next week

  11. boc610
    • 14 Years
    2 years, 2 months ago

    All referees should refuse to officiate this weekend in every major European league.

    1. The Bandit
      • 15 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      Stupid idea. Why should hundreds of thousands of fans be punished for the actions of a few morons in Turkey. Not to mention fixture congestion down the line.

      1. boc610
        • 14 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        it happens in every walk of life in every other profession if working coniditions arent fit and proper. people down tools in solidarity. my feeling is you wouldnt say this if you didnt play FPL. fans who love the game would understand.

        1. duke313
          • 2 Years
          2 years, 2 months ago

          We don't strike in UK, if workers are being shafted in another country though.

      2. boc610
        • 14 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        its been fair game on ref abuse for a long time now, this is just the culmination of it. grass roots to the elite, they are treated like garbage. non stop verbal abuse which gets personal as happened recently with Lewis Dunk in the premier league. it would be a a huge statement to make. they say football is nothing without the fans well its nothing without the officiators either

        1. Sir Michael Taker
          • 11 Years
          2 years, 2 months ago

          Fans play a big part in this abuse too. We can't have any hate type chanting these days, get condemned for giving abuse on social media etc against clubs and players but the refs are fair game.

      3. The FPL Units
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 15 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        This

      4. boc610
        • 14 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        lol fixture congestion? there was literally a world cup in the middle of last season

    2. Hairy Potter
      • 10 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      What about the Turkish league?

    3. Sir Michael Taker
      • 11 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      I agree. Sorry but its been coming to this stage, only a matter of time before something like this in Turkey happened. The biggest disgrace I find is the media (MOTD etc)ripping apart every single decision made with VAR etc but you will never hear them give praise to officials for having a good game. Lets see what they think of it when there are no officials left.

      1. I actually agree with you re the VAR/media, but I'm not sure downing tools is the answer. Chucking the thug who punched the ref in jail and chucking his team out of the league is probably more proportionate.

        1. Sir Michael Taker
          • 11 Years
          2 years, 2 months ago

          I haven't checked but I'll bet the likes of Lineker are posting on X to say how appalling this all is yet they'll still pile into refs next weekend on MOTD. Hypocrites. Yes they aren't using violence but if they can't see they aren't part of the problem in inciting that violence then they are blind. Constructive criticism is fine but it should work both ways and they should be giving good examples of where VAR works well and refs/linesman etc have good games too. Its just a constant pile on at the moment.

          1. boc610
            • 14 Years
            2 years, 2 months ago

            i think in fairness thats more at the lack of consistency in ref decisions and law application which if you saw this wekeend there were many identical instances with different outcomes. lineker is big on ref respect and I do think they praise refs more now to

            1. PartyTime
              • 4 Years
              2 years, 2 months ago

              Disgraceful scene but as you mentioned some refs are guilty. Some are into gambling while others are biased.

        2. boc610
          • 14 Years
          2 years, 2 months ago

          thats the just 'one bad egg' argument in full effect. yes what happened in turkey is rare but angry parents scream and even attack some refs every single weekend in the Uk and Ireland, abuse all the way up the leagues right to the top which kids and adults now see on their screens every weekend to. prem leaague managers confronting refs and shouting in their faces on a regular basis. its crazy.

          1. I don't disagree with the gist of what your are saying, but I think if the ref's union does have gripes it needs to work with the powers that be to try and resolve them rather than go straight to the nuclear option. If the powers that be ignore them, by all means threaten some sort of escalation.

        3. KanuLenoMeeMoCash
          • 5 Years
          2 years, 2 months ago

          probabaly want everyone to temporarily feel the harm it causes. Football being so tribal, others won't care if the league just carries on. Big statement. Could work

      2. The FPL Units
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 15 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        Just start YC and RC the idiot players. The PL is disgraceful the way players come up and surround the ref, they should all f**k off. Haaland last week, the meat head is on stupid money per week and needs to be professional regardless of the decision.

        1. Sir Michael Taker
          • 11 Years
          2 years, 2 months ago

          Haaland should have come out with a statement apologising to Hooper, he may have done privately I'm not sure. Him not getting banned and no apology just says to everyone else you can crack on and abuse refs on social media. Its a problem even creeping into Rugby, apparently refs have given up over social media abuse.

    4. Pumpkinhead - I'm ITK …
      • 16 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      All referrees should get their act together and stop playing the victim. They need to own their incompetence although they deserve all the abuse they get I don't think they should be physically harmed. Just sacked before Xmas

      1. PartyTime
        • 4 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        A huge fine & demotion so they can become more competent could also be effective.

        1. Pumpkinhead - I'm ITK …
          • 16 Years
          2 years, 2 months ago

          Absolutely. These worthless cockroaches earn well over 100k a year. Any other industry showing that much incompetence they wouldn't last a month. I hope one day AI put them all out of a job somehow

          1. Are you talking about ref's or FPL content creators?

            1. Pumpkinhead - I'm ITK …
              • 16 Years
              2 years, 2 months ago

              They are the same breed. Same character traits.

              For every Mike Dean you get a Big Man Bakar. Selectively hand picked to make you want to put your head through the monitor

              1. 😆

              2. KanuLenoMeeMoCash
                • 5 Years
                2 years, 2 months ago

                as funny as that is you don't need to watch content creators to enjoy fpl
                you do need to watch bad officiating to enjoy fpl and football itself
                Bad refs seem to linger on despite terrible decisions weekly
                like you say, sackable in most other industries

      2. OHareP
        • 4 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        But referees get criticised and abused by supporters, players and coaches even if the correct decision has been made. I guarantee you 90% of supporters and players don't know the laws of association football in side out and assume the law says one thing when indeed it says another. They also have no clue (or choose not to out of convenience) of how the laws are told to be applied.

        Independant Research a few years ago showed that referee decisions is association football were 97% correct. Give me one industry that has a 97% success rate.

        Believe me, referees at all levels make mistakes and take accountability of that. You have no idea of how hard it is and the sacrefices referees make to get to the elite level. I do. I have seen it and been around guys who have officiated at major international tournaments.

        If you want referees to own their mistakes, then supporters, players and coaches need to take responsibilty too and learn the laws and how they are applied.

  12. aapoman
    • 12 Years
    2 years, 2 months ago

    1ft and 1.1itb. WC to be played gw19 or 20 most likely

    Turner
    Saliba Scär Udogie
    Salah Son Bowen Palmer Gordon
    Haaland* Isak

    Johnstone*; Pau, James*, Mubama

    Haaland -> Watkins? Then start either Pau or Isak?

  13. Bishopool
    • 14 Years
    2 years, 2 months ago

    So is this going to be the same as with Son last gw? "Injured" Haaland starts and hauls with hattrick and 2 assists.

    1. boc610
      • 14 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      all id say to that is a foot fracture doesn't heal in a week, back pan does

      1. FantasyClub
        • 5 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        For the millionth time it’s not a fracture. It’s just stress & pain. Not a stress fracture

      2. FantasyClub
        • 5 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        And there’s a quote saying the pains gone so yeah

    2. The Knights Template
      • 12 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      Given the blank happy to consider punting him til ge 19 to avoid the speculation. Oh Erling, it’s bin night!

    3. FantasyClub
      • 5 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      Could easily be the case. If there’s nothing definitive enough by deadline Haaland will be my differential Captain lol

    4. Fabreghastly
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 15 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      A home game against CP, who are a very defensive team, is an ideal one for resting Haaland

      His injury needs time to heal so why not give him it?

      Pep wants him fit for the Cup games later

      1. Baines on Toast...
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 15 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        I'd argue Harland is more important for beating deep blocks than their other players. It's not like City play the kind of transitional football that makes him favour high lines. He's mainly there to head in crosses at the back post.

        1. Baines on Toast...
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 15 Years
          2 years, 2 months ago

          Haaland lol

      2. FantasyClub
        • 5 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        It’s simple. If he’s fit he plays

        1. duke313
          • 2 Years
          2 years, 2 months ago

          Gonna be funny when we see him in training pics on Friday, all the ealry sellers mudded.

      3. FantasyClub
        • 5 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        He’s had his rest now

        1. The Polymath
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 10 Years
          2 years, 2 months ago

          Having a rest with an injured foot is not the same as just having a rest, the injured foot is still there

  14. Zenith UK
    • 9 Years
    2 years, 2 months ago

    Won't move until after Europe, although could cost me a few hundred K. I am considering going keeping and benching Haaland for two weeks in order to have my team set up for the New-Year run.

    Areola*, Kelleher^
    Trippier**, Gabriel, Tsimikas, Lascelles, Gusto*
    Salah, Saka, Bowen, Gordon, Palmer
    Haaland*, Watkins, Semenyo

    2FTs, 1.8M ITB

    A) Bowen & Trippier > Son & Porro, leaves 1.1M ITB (free)
    B) Gusto, Trippier & Bowen > 5.2M DEF, Porro & Son (-4)
    C) Any defender & Bowen > Defender value minus 0.2M & Son (eg Gusto > 3.9M def)
    D) Bowen & Haaland > Son & Alvarez, leaves 6.9M ITB (free)
    E) Gusto, Bowen & Haaland > Porro, Son & Alvarez (-4)
    F) Other?

    Worth noting if Areola isn't back I don't have a playing GK either.

    1. Nuka Girl
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      You want rid of Bowen?

      1. Zenith UK
        • 9 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        Son decimated my rank this week. Being a West Ham fan is enough without owning Bowen too. Double the agony when he doesn't perform!

    2. Efan Ekoku Pops
      • 14 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      I'm looking at bringing Bowen in this week, I wouldn't get rid of him. I'd just do Haaland to Alvarez and maybe sort your keeper out.

    3. Fellaini's Fro
      • 12 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      Semenyos not terrible but if it were my team i'd like to use one of those transfers on Haaland to have a different striker in my xi.
      Gusto the other one I'd sell

      1. Zenith UK
        • 9 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        Just not sure what GK I want really. Taking out someone who's going to get 0 for someone who's going to get 2 😀

  15. Tonyawesome69
    • 7 Years
    2 years, 2 months ago

    Dan Burn is set to become the latest NUFC player to return from injury.

    Suggestions are he could be on the bench v AC Milan on Wednesday

    https://twitter.com/jordancronin_/status/1734499128590127249?t=j394Dfj6vQqAweTDFzanvA&s=19

    1. Tonyawesome69
      • 7 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      Not ideal as a Livramento owner. xMins at LB will be reduced but might be increased in other positions

      1. duke313
        • 2 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        Will be fine for at least one week as Trippier is suspended.

    2. the dom 1
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 11 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      Whens the UCL thread going to be updated ya think?

    3. Nate(U)dog(ie)
      • 5 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      Glad I didn't move for Livramento now, more reasons to avoid WCing I guess as that was one of my mooted moves if doing it

  16. YoungPretender
    • 11 Years
    2 years, 2 months ago

    Anyone with both Areola & Sanchez? What’s your plan?

    1. Galacticos Allstars
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 16 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      Sitting tight and hoping one of them will play.

  17. FantasyClub
    • 5 Years
    2 years, 2 months ago

    I just can’t let go of Trippier who is the best route to Son atm for a -4 unless I end up removing Haaland. Might have to be Richarlison for me

    1. Tonyawesome69
      • 7 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      Tricky one. Son clear top 3 pick on FPL with nailed mins and pens. Taking a hit that involves Trippier and knowing Son will be away to Asian cup after GW20 makes it difficult

      1. Tonyawesome69
        • 7 Years
        2 years, 2 months ago

        If Son is a captaincy option for you between 17-20, this may sway taking the hit

        1. FantasyClub
          • 5 Years
          2 years, 2 months ago

          Good point about Captaincy but a blank in 17 for Son then all of a sudden the hit doesnt look too good

          1. Tonyawesome69
            • 7 Years
            2 years, 2 months ago

            Yup that's what makes it tricky with only 17-20 to gain the hit back. The ceiling is there though

            1. FantasyClub
              • 5 Years
              2 years, 2 months ago

              Very tricky. Ceilings there for both

    2. duke313
      • 2 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      I'm in the same boat, but not gonna take a hit for him, roll to 18 and Trippier + Martinelli to Pau + Son.

  18. Miguel Sanchez
    • 9 Years
    2 years, 2 months ago

    Play one:

    A) Watkins (bre)
    B) Palmer (SHU)

    1. FantasyClub
      • 5 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      Tough. I’d go A

    2. duke313
      • 2 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      Palmer

    3. Team Bobcat
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      What's the point in owning Watkins if not prepared to play him against Brentford

  19. Gudjohnsen
    • 9 Years
    2 years, 2 months ago

    Would you take a hit for a defender if your backline is Tsmikas, Saliba, Cash, Trippier and Estupinian?

    Tsmikas and Saliba are probably starting

    Trippier suspended

    Estupinian injured

    Cash maybe sub apperance.

    So I'm relying on getting a defender with good upcoming fixtures.

    Thoughts?

    1. The Mentaculus
      • 4 Years
      2 years, 2 months ago

      Of course. I think you can safely let go of Estupinan now!

  20. Gooner Kebab
    • 13 Years
    2 years, 2 months ago

    My team have 7 on the scouts pick.
    8 if i bring Solanke for Haaland 🙂

    Have Alvarez and Archer, pls rank transfer with a hit

    a) Watkins
    b) Raul
    c) Isak

  21. duke313
    • 2 Years
    2 years, 2 months ago

    Darwin to Raul this week or hold off to GW18?