Scoreboard
14 December 2021 855 comments
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Our Scoreboard series rounds up the key goings-on from Tuesday’s Gameweek 17 fixtures, from injury news to stats analysis.

With the swift turnaround between Fantasy Premier League (FPL) deadlines, the Scoreboard articles will take the place of the usual Scout Notes throughout December.

The graphics below are taken from LiveFPL, Ragabolly’s excellent and ever-expanding website, and our own Premium Members Area.

GOALS, ASSISTS, BONUS

INJURIES AND BANS 

Bernardo Silva (£7.7m) was withdrawn at half-time tonight, with his team already 3-0 up, which Pep Guardiola touched on in his post-match interview:

“He had muscular niggles. Nothing was injured but he was a little bit uncomfortable. But at 3-0 we didn’t want to take the risk.”

Kyle Walker (£5.5m) was a surprise absentee on the night, as he wasn’t deemed fit enough to make the matchday squad.

Elsewhere, Ozan Kabak (£4.4m) went down holding his left ankle for Norwich City, and was promptly replaced, adding to the Canaries mounting injury list, while Jamie Shackleton (£4.4m) also hobbled off for Leeds United.

At Aston Villa, Jed Steer (£4.0m), Morgan Sanson (£5.0m), Anwar El Ghazi (£5.6m) and Keinan Davis (£4.5m) were all absent from the matchday squad, with Steven Gerrard saying yesterday that two members of his first-team had tested positive for Covid-19.

It was also revealed prior to kick-off that Marvelous Nakamba (£4.5m) could be ruled out for the rest of the Premier League campaign, after sustaining a knee injury against Liverpool at the weekend.

“We’ve got a rough idea (on the timeframe) but I don’t want to get it wrong and I don’t want to put unnecessary pressure on the medical staff but he’ll certainly be missing for a number of months.” – Steven Gerrard on Marvelous Nakamba

On the suspension front, Junior Firpo (£4.7m) will miss Gameweek 18, having picked up his fifth yellow card of the season tonight.

Ruben Dias (£6.1m), plus Norwich duo Max Aarons (£4.3m) and Brandon Williams (£3.9m), are also just one caution away from a ban, after picking up bookings.

However, City can at least welcome Joao Cancelo (£6.8m) back, having served his one-match suspension against Leeds.

GAMEWEEK 17 TAKEAWAYS

FOUR WINS IN SIX FOR GERRARD

Six games in for Steven Gerrard as Aston Villa manager, and he’s picked up 12 points with wins against Brighton and Hove Albion, Crystal Palace, Leicester City and Norwich City, with their only losses arriving against the current top two – Manchester City and Liverpool. It’s been a hugely encouraging start for the former Liverpool man, with appealing fixtures against Burnley and Leeds United still to come before the end of the year.

At Carrow Road, Ollie Watkins (£7.6m) produced his first double-figure haul of the season, courtesy of a goal, assist and maximum bonus, while budget midfielder Jacob Ramsey (£4.5m) – who has now started five of Gerrard’s first six matches in charge – also found the back of the net in an excellent all-round display.

It was also notable just how advanced Villa’s full-backs were on the night, especially Matty Cash (£5.0m), who touched the ball six times inside Norwich’s penalty area, more than any other player bar Watkins.

Aston Villa’s average position map v Norwich City in Gameweek 17

CITY HIT SEVEN AS DE BRUYNE AND FODEN SHINE

In a stunning performance, Man City completely outclassed Leeds in Gameweek 17, with midfielders Kevin De Bruyne (£11.8m), Riyad Mahrez (£8.6m), Phil Foden (£8.0m), Jack Grealish (£7.6m), Ilkay Gundogan (£7.3m) and Rodri (£5.5m) all amongst the points.

For Foden, his 12-point haul is his best since Brighton away in Gameweek 9, while tonight’s win also signalled the return of De Bruyne, who was simply irresistible from his no. 8 role, scoring twice from a match-high nine shots. His performance could have implications for Bernardo Silva and Gundogan, too, with the three players essentially competing for the two central attacking midfield slots in Pep Guardiola’s 4-3-3 formation.

“A lot has happened this year, a little bit out of out of my control. The only thing I could do is work hard and come back as quick as possible. It’s unfortunate with everything that has happened and at the time I was coming back I got Covid. It happened and now we are working hard to come back to a good level.” – Kevin De Bruyne

ATTACKING STRUGGLES CONTINUE AT NORWICH

Norwich City’s struggles in the final-third continued on Tuesday, as they lost 2-0 to Aston Villa at Carrow Road. As a result, they have now failed to find the back of the net in 11 of their 17 league fixtures this season, scoring just eight goals overall, while their 14.02 non-penalty expected goals (xG) total is worse than any other top-flight side.

The absentees are stacking up, too, with eight players missing against Villa due to various injuries and Covid, something Dean Smith touched on after the match:

“It looked like we were playing low-risk football, which is not what we asked. We’re missing around eight players that could play in the first team at the moment. The last few games have been frustrating because of our finishing. Tonight, it was frustrating because of our first-half performance. You’re not going to win anything playing like that.”

855 Comments Login to Post a Comment
  1. Esalman
    • 16 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    Which transfer would you prioritize?

    A. Livra > Cancelo
    B. Bernardo > Foden
    C. Raphinha > Gallagher

    1. Botman and Robben
      • 9 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      A

    2. RamaJama
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 13 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      A

    3. XX SMICER XX
      • 7 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      A

  2. Slitherene
    • 7 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    Okay to save FT?

    Sanchez ¦ Steele
    TAA Cancelo Rudiger
    Salah Foden Mount Bowen Gallagher
    Ronaldo Dennis
    ¦ Cash Livramento Davis

    1. The Mentaculus
      • 4 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Who knows (yet)? Would play Cash (BUR) over Dennis (wol) though

      1. Warby84
        • 10 Years
        4 years, 2 months ago

        Dennis (CRY) hm

        1. The Mentaculus
          • 4 Years
          4 years, 2 months ago

          Oops, my bad, jumped a week

  3. Botman and Robben
    • 9 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    1 point so far, hope to get some this evening.

    1. Holmes
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      How many players left?

      4 from 3 here. 7 to go.

      1. Botman and Robben
        • 9 Years
        4 years, 2 months ago

        You mean 8 to go? Only Bilva has played for me.

        1. Holmes
          • 12 Years
          4 years, 2 months ago

          No GK

    2. Eleven Hag
      • 8 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      1 pt with 9 to go

    3. The Mentaculus
      • 4 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Classic rough/smooth start... Jesus 0 Bernardo 1; new signings Cash & Watkins 18

      1. Gazwaz80
        • 6 Years
        4 years, 2 months ago

        14 from 2, 9 to go….

    4. One More Hit
      • 7 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      -3 for me, got -1 for Bilva and my temporary Livra substitute Williams got booked so 0!

  4. EL tridente
    • 8 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    Does of you who got in Watkins for Ronaldo, will you keep him now or look to bring in Ronaldo again? I will probably myself keep Watkins and look to invest some of the money in the midfield - most likely some more City players and maybe Son.

    1. Ginkapo FPL
      • 14 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Moar hits

    2. XX SMICER XX
      • 7 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      I kept Ronaldo as I didn’t want to waste transfers selling & rebuying.
      Need those transfers to fight other fires!

    3. marcos11
      • 5 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Probably get Ronaldo back in for gw19

    4. Iceball
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 11 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Got Watkins and Foden for Ronaldo and Brownhill so not easy to get Ronaldo back now

      1. Andy_Social
        • 13 Years
        4 years, 2 months ago

        Not going back for Ronaldo. Despite getting his 9 points last week, I felt that Ralf's United have tightened up at the back but are still disjointed going forward.

        1. TheTinman
          • 10 Years
          4 years, 2 months ago

          Utd have been disjointed at best all season and the goals have still came in for CR7. The flat track bully will score goals no matter what and he's bagged penalties now

  5. Nate(U)dog(ie)
    • 5 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    Assuming all fixtures go ahead as planned, if you were upgrading Sanchez this or next week who would you go with?

    A) Ramsdale
    B) De Gea

    DDG looks to have the better fixture run but Arsenal's aren't that bad either

    1. Lord of Ings
      • 10 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Ramsdale
      Save magnet

    2. XX SMICER XX
      • 7 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Ramsdale feels like an easy set & forget

    3. The Mentaculus
      • 4 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Ramsdale

      1. Gazwaz80
        • 6 Years
        4 years, 2 months ago

        De Gea

    4. marcos11
      • 5 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      DDG

  6. Hazardous1983
    • 15 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    Bench jota alonso cancelo or trent

    1. The Knights Template
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Salah

    2. XX SMICER XX
      • 7 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      None of the above!
      Jota / Alonso coin flip

      1. XX SMICER XX
        • 7 Years
        4 years, 2 months ago

        I am going to have a similar benching headache - though. Covid may make the decision for me

  7. XX SMICER XX
    • 7 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    Interesting comments in Dean Smith post match interview, keep an eye on whether their next fixture goes ahead

    1. Athletico Underachieving
      • 5 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Hhmm yeah slightly concerning

    2. teneighty
      • 11 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      What did he say?

    3. George James
      • 11 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Just read the full Interview on the club website not sure how you can think the next fixture is in doubt?

    4. George James
      • 11 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Speaking with canaries.co.uk after the match, he said: "(It was a) disappointing result, very very disappointing performance in the first-half especially.

      "(We were) too passive and never really laid a glove on them without the ball. We've got them in good areas at times and never went to ground and made tackles.

      "You only have to look at their (first) goal, the lad (Ramsey) has ran from the halfway line and nobody has laid a glove on him.

      "We were too slow on the ball, it looked like we were playing low risk football, playing safe rather than risking it. Our full-backs were always going to be our out balls but we never got it quick enough to them.

      "Second-half was better but it didn't have to be an awful lot to be better. I thought we looked fit towards the end of the game which was pleasing but we've given two sloppy goals away."

      City's preparation for the game was disrupted by injury and COVID-related issues, but Smith was keen not to come up with excuses for the defeat.

      "It doesn't help. I would normally have named the team yesterday but we've had to wait until the game tonight and name the team," he revealed.

      "We didn't have an awful lot of options. Dimi (Giannoulis) felt unwell as well, so he was confined to the bench today.

      "So, we were struggling for numbers a little bit. That is a reason but not an excuse. We can't allow our performance levels to drop so much from Manchester United to Aston Villa.

      "We've had (Lukas) Rupp come out, Dimi who was poorly and a number of others. The pleasing thing for me is Sam (Byram) has got on the pitch for the first time in two years. He did alright, as well. But of course he'll be disappointed with the result and where we are in the league as well."

      Smith now wants his players to look ahead, as their next match comes in just a few days at West Ham United.

      "We believed there was an opportunity to win the game today but our first-half performance wasn't good enough to do that.

      "Those big moments in games are going against us. Kenny's (McLean) has a great chance a few minutes after half-time, if we take that and score it's a different game.

      "But we won't get too down about it. We've got games coming up thick and fast.

      "We've got to see who's available first (for Saturday). We've got to get them ready first, we'll work hard on the training ground and make sure Saturday's performance is better."

      1. TheTinman
        • 10 Years
        4 years, 2 months ago

        Still don't read cancellation into that

        1. George James
          • 11 Years
          4 years, 2 months ago

          Agree

      2. Forgetmeknot
        • 7 Years
        4 years, 2 months ago

        Thanks for posting in full, very different to how it is being reported elsewhere. I agree, doesn’t point to current concern about the fixture

  8. Karan_G14
    • 9 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    Bench one?

    A) Alonso (wol)
    B) Gallagher (wat)
    C) King (CRY)

    1. Lord of Ings
      • 10 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      That’s really tough lol
      Probably king

      1. Karan_G14
        • 9 Years
        4 years, 2 months ago

        Been crying for a strong bench since weeks and now when I have it im hating the benching decision lol.

    2. Chalobah's Witness
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 7 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      B or C
      For me Watford is more interesting attacking than Palace so I'd go B

    3. TheTinman
      • 10 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      King

  9. Forza Papac
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 10 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    I have the exact money itb to do ESR > KDB. Should I?

    1. Lord of Ings
      • 10 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Nop

    2. XX SMICER XX
      • 7 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Yes. Or look at Foden and use the additional funds elsewhere

  10. Ha.
    • 10 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    1. Wilson > Watkins
    2. Raph > Foden

    1. Lord of Ings
      • 10 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      2

    2. TheTinman
      • 10 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Wilson almost has to go unless you have big fires elsewhere

  11. Lord of Ings
    • 10 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    Just sold Gundogan this week and seeing him get 2 assists was not really ideal!
    Should I get Gundogan back or will it be too knee jerky!

    1. XX SMICER XX
      • 7 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      City have so many fantastic midfield options. Whoever you own you have to accept rotation.

    2. internal error
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 13 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Who did you sell him for?

  12. Oggle22
    • 9 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    Bilva and Dennis to Watkins and Gray for free?

    1. Eleven Hag
      • 8 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Why Bilva out!

      1. Oggle22
        • 9 Years
        4 years, 2 months ago

        Won't be risked against Newcastle I don't think

  13. matiakez
    • 15 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    Bottling getting rid of Ronaldo for the hit hurt a lot last night, particularly as it also meant no cit mid.

    Is losing Ronaldo the only route to city here?

    Ramsdale Foster
    TAA Cancelo James Regullion Livramento
    Salah Jota Bowen Odegaard Brownhill
    Dennis Antonio Ronaldo

    1. Chalobah's Witness
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 7 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      How much ITB?

    2. TheTinman
      • 10 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      You made the move with Ronaldo for the next few gameweeks. Of course it will not feel great today.

      Stick with your initial instincts and toughen up.

      City won't win 7-0 every week. KDB and Sterling now in form just adds more doubt to their line up.

  14. Hiiler
    • 4 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    First day of GW17 behind me, did not have any players in the first day, but I guess it went quite okay. It damaged my OR but only moderatly I guess, since most of the players who got points were kinda diffrentials or there were no big hauls at least. Trying to look at it positivly. 🙂

  15. Gazwaz80
    • 6 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    Bottled out of getting Foden for ESR at the last minute, although I did put Watkins in for Vardy so, every cloud and all that 😀

  16. Eleven Hag
    • 8 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    Bench one

    A) King (palace h)
    B) Dennis
    C) Jota (Spurs a)

    1. Ha.
      • 10 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      C

    2. Lord of Ings
      • 10 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Has to be A or B
      Just can’t bench jota

      1. Eleven Hag
        • 8 Years
        4 years, 2 months ago

        Even against the well rested Spurs side who have been parking the bus under Conte even against the weaker sides ?

        1. Lord of Ings
          • 10 Years
          4 years, 2 months ago

          Jota can score against anyone
          And palace isn’t a plum fixture as such
          I’d still play Diogo

          1. Eleven Hag
            • 8 Years
            4 years, 2 months ago

            Start king or Dennis?

    3. Del Griffith
      • 13 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      A

  17. Lord of Ings
    • 10 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    Who would you prioritise getting next week?
    A)Watkins
    B)Antonio
    C)Gallagher

    1. Eleven Hag
      • 8 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Antonio

    2. Ha.
      • 10 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      A

    3. Lord of Ings
      • 10 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      I’ve already got Bowen
      Seems like Watkins might be the best option then?

  18. manu4life99
    • 16 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    Save FT?

    Ramsdale
    TAA Rudiger Cancelo
    Salah Jota BSilva Foden ESR
    Antonio King

    sanchez dennis tierney reguilion

    1. circusmonkey
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 15 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Yes

  19. Nomar
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 16 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    May be doing Bernardo to Foden with one of my 2 FT.

    1. Ajax Hamsterdam
      • 11 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Risky...

  20. Ajax Hamsterdam
    • 11 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    Can't see Silva starting a Newcastle which is a real shame. Silva to Bowen and will try to get a city mid following gw. my season is going from bad to worse...

    1. internal error
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 13 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Not sure about that. He could start or he could come on for 30-35 mins. Either way, against Newcastle, he only needs 10mins to get a return

    2. ktk_interista
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 15 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      5 days rest before that game

  21. Ruinenlust
    • 8 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    Why are ppl selling Bernardo?

    1. Dynamic Duos
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Foden time

    2. Del Griffith
      • 13 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      He's injured and KDB is back

    3. Andy_Social
      • 13 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      They bought him AFTER his string of hauls and have no patience.

      1. Nomar
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 16 Years
        4 years, 2 months ago

        Yesterday his role looked considerably reduced by the reappearance of KdB.

        Last season, Gundogan shined whilst City had injuries but his output dried up once the regulars came back.

        I fear the same could be true for Bilva. I only just jumped on the Bilva train, but it might be time to read the signs, realise the train is nearing the end of its journey, which is nowhere near the destination I want, and get off at the next stop.

    4. Boberella
      • 9 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Lack of patience. Flagged. And KDB, Foden, Grealish, Mahrez all scoring points.

  22. DAZZ
    • 11 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    Sanchez*
    TAA Alonso James Cancelo
    Foden Salah Bowen Jota
    Antonio Watkins
    (Steele, King, Sissoko, Manquillo)
    2.5M ITB 1FT

    Any suggestions??

    Sanchez > Ramsdale/De Gea
    Alonso > Coufal/Cash
    Save?

  23. Tinmen
    • 12 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    Guys should I just sell Jesus or keep for Newcastle ?

    1. _Gunner
      • 11 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      I'd keep
      well rested and he should start

    2. internal error
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 13 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Sell. Chance he doesn't start vs Newcastle which I suspect will be the case.

    3. Dynamic Duos
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Keep he will start v Newcastle

    4. DAZZ
      • 11 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      I dont think he starts tbh. Dont think we’ll see too many changes, maybe 2/3 i think Silva, Mahrez, Stones out Gundo, Sterling, Cancelo in. Maybe he’ll play Bernardo and Gundo and bring KDB oht but he looked good

      1. Dynamic Duos
        • 12 Years
        4 years, 2 months ago

        Jesus Sterling Foden front 3 it will be

  24. Dynamic Duos
    • 12 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    Start Jota or Gallagher?

    1. Chalobah's Witness
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 7 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Jota any day

      1. Dynamic Duos
        • 12 Years
        4 years, 2 months ago

        Even when starting on bench v Spurs?

        1. Chalobah's Witness
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 7 Years
          4 years, 2 months ago

          Firstly I don't think he will be benched. That being said, I feel like Salah's performance curve is flattening out slightly. He is undoubtedly world class and currently the best in the world, but he doesn't score easily anymore. If the game remains goalless for a long time, Jota is exactly the man who can fix it.

  25. Gunners in Haaland
    • 6 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    Can I save here? 4.8 itb

    DDG
    TAA Cancelo James Alonso
    Salah Jota B.Silva Gallagher
    Antonio Dennis

    Sanchez ESR Dalot Gelhardt

    1. DAZZ
      • 11 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Easily.

      1. Gunners in Haaland
        • 6 Years
        4 years, 2 months ago

        Cheers

    2. aapoman
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Yup save

      1. Gunners in Haaland
        • 6 Years
        4 years, 2 months ago

        Thanks

  26. Chalobah's Witness
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 7 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    I put Foden on the team for a hit. Normally I always keep my team City free, because I don't fancy rotation.
    However, the City line up is now much more predictable than in previous years. From your point of view, does it make sense to simply switch to the playing City midfielder every week? You will lose money, but it might pay off.

  27. Will Kane
    • 9 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    Disappointed that Bilva wasn't involved in the carnage last night but 18 from 3 is an OK start. Watkins VC so nice to have that safety net just in case...

    1. Chalobah's Witness
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 7 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Salah (C)?

      1. Will Kane
        • 9 Years
        4 years, 2 months ago

        Yes

        1. Chalobah's Witness
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 7 Years
          4 years, 2 months ago

          very well played!

  28. mcginnntonic
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 6 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    Bachman to DDG/Ramsdale or roll transfer?

    1. aapoman
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      Roll

    2. Steve The Spud
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      I’d make the move, I’m also a long suffering Bachman/foster owner

      They are awful

      1. mcginnntonic
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 6 Years
        4 years, 2 months ago

        I only got them last week as was an easy switch from sanchez - nearly hauled lol

  29. aapoman
    • 12 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    Early tinkering. 1ft and 4.2itb. Can I save the ft (if no injuries)?

    Ramsdale
    TAA Cancelo Alonso James
    Salah Foden Gallagher
    Antonio Watkins King

    Foster*; Raphinha, Livramento, Brownhill

  30. FCSB
    • 10 Years
    4 years, 2 months ago

    Early thoughts, obviously a lot can change as the week goes on...

    Ramsdale
    TAA James Alonso Cancelo
    Salah Jota Bilva Gallagher
    Antonio King

    Foster Raphinha Livramento Davis

    2FT, 5.0itb

    1. Raphinha >> Foden (bench King)
    2. Raphinha >> Bowen (bench King)
    3. Davis >> Watkins (bench King)
    4. Davis Raphinha >> Watkins Foden (bench King and Alonso)

    Thanks all.

    1. aapoman
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 2 months ago

      I like 3 as it gives you better depth