634x258 Miscellaneous
4 August 2014 115 comments
Simply Loveleh Simply Loveleh
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This is my ninth season of Fantasy Premier League and my first as a Fantasy Football Scout member and after all these year’s and experience I still don’t know what the best formation to use is. Most of the time I opt for  the obvious 3-4-3, or the ever-tempting 3-5-2. And then it came to me, if I can back up my thoughts with hard numbers, why not go 4-4-2 or even more daring and go 4-5-1. The point of this, my first article, isn’t to convince you to change formation tactic, but to share why after half an hour with a calculator I changed to 4-5-1, and why it is my best selection so far.

As we all know, defenders and keepers offer great value, but value can only be achieved if you pick actual point-scorers, this year, Wisdom seems great value, but he has to play, and then keep some clean sheets, I’m not so sure and very happy to see the back of him from my team.

I took the top eight point-scorers of last season from each position, and when you look at it, there aren’t too many surprises, for example in defence, Fonte aside, the other seven are all as expected, two Everton, three Chelsea and two Arsenal. The same goes for the midfield and striking choices.

Please note for the top eight strikers, I don’t have the Suarez figures, which could affect the results significantly, but the eighth best striker is Aguero, who is a good choice as he missed a lot of game time last year and he has a high points-per-game value.

So I took the top eight scorers and simply got the average points for each position: defenders 161, midfielders 178 and strikers 174, so as you can see at first glance, not a major difference between the three positions.

However, we all know that last season’s strikers were injured a lot, so I then looked at the minutes played by these top eight guys. They averaged 33 games, 28.5 games and 26.5 games respectively, so now we know the strikers are getting more points per game: 4.8 (defenders), 6.2 (midfielders) and 6.6 (strikers) per game – nothing too exciting there.

Defenders need an extra seven games to get fewer points, so for those extra seven games at six points each you can get an extra 40 points, but I would say out of those seven games, we don’t know about half of them in advance as rest and rotation hits you hard, so in reality, it could be four games and only an extra 25 points gained.

Now here is the interesting bit – I didn’t know what to do with that data. If my strikers play 30 games instead of 26 they will score 200 points instead of 160, so I then got the top eight game time players and found that the top eight defenders average 36.5 games a year, midfielders 35.7 and strikers 29.9. This shows clearly that strikers just don’t play a full season.  So, unless you can find a Suarez who bucks the trend, stock up on midfielders. They play a full season and average six points per game, and then stock up on defence. All you have to do is pick a top-eight point-scorer to be in with a chance.

So this season, my Suarez is Robin van Persie, and that’s it, I’ve gone 451, it allows me to get five big guns in my team and have a strong defence. With two weeks to go my team looks like this.

Foster – Smalling, Baines, Taylor, Davies – Fabregas, Sigurdson, Ramsey, Gerrard, Toure – RVP

As I said at the start of this article, I’m not trying to re-invent the wheel, just share that for the first time, I have convinced myself that I don’t have to play 3-4-3 and follow the template team – and if it doesn’t work, I always have my wildcard.

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  1. beepingmeeping
    • 14 Years
    11 years, 4 months ago

    If one of your strikers doesn't play, an auto sub will come on and you'll automatically switch to a 442 or 451. Why go for it from the outset? As you said strikers score more.

    Experience shows defender heavy teams don't work. It's true defenders are good value, but I don't think expensive defenders massively outscore the cheaper ones and that's the stat you have to be looking at.

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  2. sportyrich2000
    • 11 Years
    11 years, 4 months ago

    Nice idea but I have put your team in to see it and you don't have the money for your subs. Am I right in this?

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    1. The Team Principal
      • 13 Years
      11 years, 4 months ago

      I did my best to recreate the team and found:

      Foster, Myhill
      Davies, Baines, Steven Taylor(?), Smalling, Bruce
      Sigurdsson, Fabregas, Ramsey, Gerrard, Toure
      van Persie, Anichebe, vaz Te

      The bench is just far too cheap for my liking and you have no guarantee of any of your bench players actually starting games.

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  3. Hi, whats the highest score anyone has managed to get so far on the Rate My Team function of this website? I just got 317.3.

    1. TorresMagic™
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • Has Moderation Rights
      • 16 Years
      11 years, 4 months ago

      Best not to share members area info.
      325 or so.

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      1. RMT's Professor
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 15 Years
        11 years, 4 months ago

        I got 331.79 this morning with 0.5m in the bank spare.

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        1. GreenWindmill
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 14 Years
          11 years, 4 months ago

          Show off 😉

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        2. TorresMagic™
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • Has Moderation Rights
          • 16 Years
          11 years, 4 months ago

          I'd beat that but there's no prize 😛

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      2. ★Brutal Deluxe★
        • 11 Years
        11 years, 4 months ago

        Sorry, good point

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      3. ★Brutal Deluxe★
        • 11 Years
        11 years, 4 months ago

        Is there a members only forum?

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        1. TorresMagic™
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • Has Moderation Rights
          • 16 Years
          11 years, 4 months ago

          No.
          Not sharing is the point unless you create a table for members only.

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      4. chrrizzy
        • 11 Years
        11 years, 4 months ago

        Highest I got was 327.32 with 0.5m in the bank

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    2. ★Brutal Deluxe★
      • 11 Years
      11 years, 4 months ago

      Now got 325.16 with...

      Krul Mannone
      Wisdom Jones Taylor Mariappa Simpson
      Snodgrass Hazard Yaya Ramsey Erikssen
      Rooney Wickham Pelle

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  4. TorresMagic™
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • Has Moderation Rights
    • 16 Years
    11 years, 4 months ago

    Try the latest post everyone.

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  5. Igor! Pulis(w)ic!
    • 11 Years
    11 years, 4 months ago

    Interesting final decision to go for 4-5-1. I had been contemplating a 5-2-3 or 5-3-2, on the basis that all the value for money comes from the defence, so stock up on reliable solidity back there.

    I still had the means to field some big hitters up top (e.g. Aguero, Rooney *and* Sturridge) and therefore give myself some "safe" captaincy options.

    Means two mid-range midfielders e.g. Siggurdson and Arnie.

    Not sure it will work... but fun concept...

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  6. Borriello
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 12 Years
    11 years, 4 months ago

    4-5-1… The opening games favour it as most top teams have a tough start… Could opt for Rooney instead of RvP, Seems he's unfit for the opening round or two.

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  7. Simply Loveleh
    • 11 Years
    11 years, 4 months ago

    Just a bit of comeback, thanks for all the feedback, very welcome, both objectic and subjective, since i wrote this article i have made another 50 changes, most notibly Rooney in for RVP and Mata in for Siggy.

    My bench is full of crap like Zamora, nothing worth writing home about.

    And to all those that pointed out that i contradicted myself by proving that Strikers have the highest points per game, but then went for midfielders. Please read over it again, its not just about points per game or points per million its about getting value for every million of the hundred spent, for me, that comes from the midfield, messrs Yaya, Mata, Cesc, Gerrard & Ramsey

    There was of course a hidden agenda with this article, to introduce myself to fantasy world without just doing RMT

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    1. dribbler
      • 16 Years
      11 years, 4 months ago

      let's say you were going to play 4-5-1 every week and I was going to play 3-4-3 with cheap defenders...now forget about bonus points for the time being

      let's assume 12 player teams to allow for our captains so you have 6 defenders and 6 attackers while I have 4 defenders and 8 attackers

      let's predict that your defenders will average 4 points per game excluding bonus (50% clean sheets) while my cheap (but not dirt-cheap) defenders will get 3 points per game...let's also predict that our attacking players will score 6 points per game

      now if you crunch the numbers you'll see that both teams score 60 points per week

      but you'll find it really tough to get 4 points per game from your defenders unless you stick to players from the top clubs...remember you'll mostly have to play them through the tough fixtures...so let me give you this team:

      DDG
      Debuchy-Kosielny-Azpilicueta-Luis-Baines
      Mata-Hazard-Eriksson-Sigurdsson (Albrighton)
      Rooney (Bojan-Austin)

      so that's a pretty good team with useful reserves

      now let's suppose my team is:

      4.5-4.5
      5.5-5.5 (4.5-4.5-4.0)
      Same Midfield
      Rooney-Costa-Dzeko

      I would argue that my team is better than yours because:

      (a) I can more easily switch to any expensive attacker I like...you will want Rooney for 8 weeks so you can't get Aguero-Sturridge-Costa-Lukaku-Dzeko-Giroud-Bony or Sanchez-Yaya...or to put the same point another way I can get 6 expensive attackers while you're stuck with 3...so I have more flexibility and I can more easily take advantage of a good run of fixtures

      (b) I will often have better captaincy options because you can't captain a defender because they have lower ppg expectations...once in a while I may captain my second striker (Costa-Sturridge-Aguero) and they'll have a big game when Rooney doesn't score points

      (c) I would also hope that my 4 cheap defenders can score more than 12 points per week...you think you're getting good value by playing defenders but I can get good value by exploiting good rotation options...so I'd hope that my cheap keepers will score as high as DDG and traditionally that approach has worked...and I'd hope that a Debuchy-Evans-(Cheapo good fixture) can also get maybe 3.5 ppg

      so I say you can only go all out in defence if your defenders can score more than 4.0 ppg...that's why a player like Baines can be a good option but the other 4 defenders I gave you are much less attractive...they're OK as part of a 2-man defence but just won't get enough points if you play 5 at the back through the tough fixtures

      it's a theoretical argument of course...experience may differ from one season to the next and you need to decide if you agree with my assumptions...but I've never seen a successful team with 4 expensive defenders

      3 expensive defenders might work well but first you'll need to find this seasons "New Ramsey" or "New Michu" so you can get your 3 defenders AND still have 7 good attacking players

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      1. dribbler
        • 16 Years
        11 years, 4 months ago

        "you were going to play 4-5-1 every week"...oops sorry that should have read 5-4-1

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  8. tm245
    • 14 Years
    11 years, 4 months ago

    Won't rotating defenders meet your needs as well so you can get six big attackers? I don't quite follow how average is being discussed here...

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  9. MeDo_JE
    • 11 Years
    11 years, 4 months ago

    What about 3-5-2...?

    Krul/Mannone
    Luis - Davies - Evans /4.5/4
    Ramsey - Mata - Fabregas - Sterling - Eriksen
    Rooney /Austin/6m (or 5.5 and 0.5 invest in gk or def)...

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  10. RedLightning
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • Has Moderation Rights
    • 15 Years
    11 years, 4 months ago

    My own calculations based on a combination of last season's performances and this season's prices actually suggested a 5-4-1 formation at one point.

    However, after a few reality checks and adjustments for transfers, doubtful starters and pre-season form I'll probably finish up with a more conventional 3-5-2.

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  11. RedLightning
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • Has Moderation Rights
    • 15 Years
    11 years, 4 months ago

    The big problem with 4-5-1 or 5-4-1 is that you need a backup forward on your bench.

    If neither of your benched forwards are reasonably nailed on, then you will be forced to field a 10 man team whenever your main forward misses a game, since 5-5-0 is not a valid formation.

    And if your second forward IS reasonably nailed on, then he is probably good enough to field in a 4-4-2, 3-5-2 or 5-3-2 formation, or would be with a slight upgrade.

    Good to see someone else being prepared to think outside the box and consider interesting alternatives to the standard template formation, though! 🙂

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  12. Heels_Over_Head
    • 12 Years
    11 years, 4 months ago

    Liverpool led the league with 12 penalty kicks awarded last season.

    #2 was ManCity with 7.

    Don't think Stevie G. will get to the spot as much this season and advise you to find a different 9.0 to replace him.

    data here: http://www.football-lineups.com/tourn/FA_Premier_League_2013-2014/stats/penalties/

    otherwise, very interesting article; well done !

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    1. The Team Principal
      • 13 Years
      11 years, 4 months ago

      I think Raheem Sterling will win a fair few penalties this season. However, I think Gerrard is reaching the stage of his career that, especially with Champions League, he will not be playing in every game of the season.

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  13. the cromulent one
    • 12 Years
    11 years, 4 months ago

    The problem with this is one of the initial assumptions: that the top eight points scorers at each position are predictable.
    I really beg to differ. Take the defence, where 2 Everton, 3 Chelsea and 2 Arsenal can be found (excluding Fonte, which is kind of cheating 😉 ). Somewhat predictable, but not completely. There are no ManCity players, and no Liverpool players on thatist. Only in hindsight could you say this was predictable. Before last season began, people were picking Liverpool to have the highest number of clean sheets... but things didn't quite work out that way. Meanwhile, if you were to have been told before the season began that ManCity would be champions, you might have predicted 3 City defenders. Same hindsight applies to ManU who were defending champs.
    Playing 4 defenders can work, but there is no guarantee that you, or anyone, can reliably predict the right defenders to pick. You can chase defensive form, but you often end up missing the big haul, or chasing last weeks points while spending on transfers.

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  14. Forget Special, I am the ON…
    • 14 Years
    11 years, 4 months ago

    Smalling the first defender on the sheet ?
    he is not a sure starter , I'd always pick Jones or Evans ahead of him.

    Also I like your team because this is the first different Team I have seen this season - rest everyone is going with 3-4-3 or 3-5-2.
    I firmly believe in thinking differently at the start of season and it has always paid of for me.

    Last yr I captain Ivanovic and he returned me the most no. of points and I was Number 1 in all the mini-leagues. Things started changing as we move along and I ended up mid-table 😀

    I will definitely be considering 4-5-1 formation - Thanks for sharing.

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  15. Tiggsy
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 11 Years
    11 years, 4 months ago

    Interesting. I think I'll stick with a mix of 3-5-2, 3-4-3 and 4-4-2 purely because some of the better value wing backs (which my defence is made from) don't come from the strongest sides so I know I'll need to rotate. My midfield is quite solid, Gerrard/Sanchez/Hazard with Puncheon and Siggy as my lower cost players.

    I'll have a tinker with the XI though and see if any 4-5-1s catch my eye.

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  16. A Fat Spanish Waiter
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 11 Years
    11 years, 4 months ago

    I ran all of the starting lineup formation through a linear optimization model using player projections for the year and the first six game weeks. The results show 3-4-3 is the optimal lineup using the first six weeks data and 4-3-3 using the full season data. The results show VERY little difference on the margin, so I'd say go with whatever floats your boat.

    Best result I got on RMT was 332.89

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  17. Biancazzurri
    • 13 Years
    11 years, 4 months ago

    Yes, but the thing is, neither your defence, nor your midfield look "premium".
    Will Smalling play? Do you consider Spurs a top defence? RVP is a doubt...
    It sounded good (on paper) until I actually saw the team. 🙂 Sorry

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  18. Red Devilz
    • 13 Years
    11 years, 4 months ago

    I am planning to use 3-4-3....any thoughts on my team...

    de-gea
    Lovren-jagielka-debuchy
    mata-sterling-ramsy-nzogbia
    rooney-costa-remy

    any changes needed or she i go with this team.
    🙂

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    1. Hops91
      • 11 Years
      11 years, 4 months ago

      Good team mate, nzogbia?.

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  19. Hops91
    • 11 Years
    11 years, 4 months ago

    Sagna?

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