lol. at least with the paddling pool he can fold up the evidence and take it home

*chegs

i don't really care about grammar, it was just a link i could use

Hope so.

Actually seeing it from that angle I retract my earlier post......

United were much the better team in Moscow.

Take off those goggles Jamsiep

I did hear.... 😛

I don't suppose you have any family video recordings of the moment Terry missed do you?

As I recall it, United had the better of the first half. It was pretty even over the 120.

I really hope that you aren't seriously trying to do this, because I have said absolutely nothing about which team was the better side that night. And, to be honest, I can't remember much about it, it all blurred into one absolute horror show.

I hope that you are mocking the other Utd fans on here with this comment.

@AP- unfortunately not, massive oversight on my part! 😛

United were all over Chelsea for the first half and then Lampard scored a lucky one against the run of play. 2nd half Chelsea were the better side.
Hate winning on pens (United like England normally lose them), still feels like a slightly empty victory.

United should have put the game to bed in the first half and the Chelsea goal was beyond fortunate.
Chelsea were the better side in 2nd half. But not to the extinct United were in the first.

Maybe so DB, although I'm still completely at a loss as to why you brought it up in the first place.

I suppose you could see it one of two ways:

1.It's an empty victory because we had to rely on a chelsea slip up.

2.It's an even sweeter victory because John Terry (i.e. Mr Chelsea) bottled it in hilarious fashion.

Lol. I'm just a drone in sector 7 G. I do work in the media though.

i think sport psychology (regardless of which sport) is useful if you think you may have a problem psychologically. if you have never had an issue, nor ever thought about it before, i think even learning about it can be hugely damaging. imo ignorance is bliss in this case. if you think about times you've done well in your own sport it's like you're on auto-pilot that day, you're not thinking and everything is just coming off instinctively. once you start thinking it's one more thing to cloud the mind imo. that's why i think it's great for individual sports like golf because a player can approach a sport psychologist and get help, they know they have a psychological barrier/issue, they're open to it, it will help them, or at least it's worth a try. for a team sport like football say the whole team is made to see a psychologist once a week then that is damaging imo as there will be individuals within that team who don't need their minds clouding. should the psycholgist be offered to individual players however to see them on their own fair enough. i also think it;s a case that football as a team sport is much more unpredictable and there is a limit to the amount of control one player can have. a golfer for example is almost in full control of their destiny, only minor things like the weather play a part.
generalising by bringing things like culture, intelligence etc into it is irrelevent imo, it's more the sport itself and like i say whether the individual feels they have a problem

With all do respect speaking from 4 years of studying it Apple that comment is a pile of nonsense riddled with so many cliches it merely backs up again the culturally barriers football needs to overcome. There are millions of papers to refute everything you just mentioned.

that's my take on it. i did a bit of it at uni, i don't claim to have studied it for years nor read millions of papers it's simply my take on it. to summarise my opinion ignorance is bliss and it lends itself more to certain sports than others. or certain parts of sports like johnny wilkinson using imagery for penalties. the ball is static he's in control etc etc

I take it that your opinion i just dont understand where its come from.

You want an example of a player excelling due to Sport Psychology. Tommy Bowe Irish and Lion now

4 years ago he wasnt deemed in the top 30 players in Ireland.
Now he is considered amongst the very elite of the game. My former professor worked with him for a few years.

ok i'll give an example. you're wayne rooney and you've got a last minute penalty to beat chelsea in the champions league semi coming up. you've taking thousands of penalties before, you've got the technique and everything programmed in your mind. when you're standing behind the ball do you then need to be thinking, "oh wait what was it that guy told us about last week? something like imagine the ball going in the corner, tell yourself you're going to score, picture gary neville chasing me round the changing room in his underpants as we celebrate my goal takign us through to the final. now how do i do this?"
it's all stuff he doesn't need to think about right there and then imo. it's a penalty which he's been scoring without thinking about it for years, don't make it something it's not.
HOWEVER should rooney start missing a few and it becomes an issue then i think yeah go work with a psychologist as it's not clouding his mind as it's already clouded with doubts as he stands behind the ball.
p.s can psychology refute anything. i thought it was a very scetchy, if interesting, subject as it's not exaclty an exact science with right and wrong answers is it? but if the millions of papers you are reading, whilst also reading up on papers on various other subjects you debate on here, whilst also managing to scout every single footballer this side of macedonia in every single game they ever play, all at the tender age of <25 then please continue

& <25 say otherwise then please continue.

damn so close

I think you have confused the issue. The example you give say with Rooney is back to front.

The reason he would be good in the first place at pens is in a large way attributed to the fact that he as an elite player would be mentally more astute than a lower level player. Studies have shown the biggest factor to differentiate at elite level is mental toughness. Rooney would be based on all other evidence already naturally using mental strategies to allow him to suceed.
A common theme in elite sport is top athletes across all sports visualize. Rooney i have no doubt would too prob since a child without evening knowing what it is.

The idea of sport pshchlogy is to fix a problem not to complete a matter which is already functioning.

Another quick example, what is another massive common theme running throughout elite level sports people since a young age across the board -Goal setting. Again many being without evening knowing they are doing it. A sports psychologist wouldnt come and change this - he would work with the people not doing it.

And on your final remark. Yes i read alot of stuff on alot of topics. I never said I read millions of papers on Sport Psychology i said there were millions on it.

rte - JOKE. tony quinn - EVEN BIGGER F**KING JOKE.

i think collins just needed someone to tell him what he always knew- that he was able to turn into a madman and beat the jesus out of eubank and Benn.

had collins in my bar in new york one night, he came in on the friday, Jimmy case came in on the saturday, and persuaded them both to come in on sunday. WHAT a f**king piss up, collins is bang on, but mad as a hatter. bug bastard too, fists like anvils. One of my personal heros he was so it was a big night for me.

collins kept telling the waitresses (good friends of mine) that they should do what he says, cos hes a man, and ride him up in the hotel room. it was hilarious, the girls didnt get it though, and i said " Steve, leave the girls alone, or ill give ye such a f**king hiding!" it was a calculated risk, but him being a fellow dub, he saw the funny side of it, i handed him another beer, everyone started bustig their whole laughing, he left the girls slone, they thanked me, he go the message, turned up the wolfe tones, and we all started dancing. The night was MAD, regulars were talking about it for months.

Good times, miss em i must say.

but that's what i mean. if you if you make someone like rooney aware of why he's so mentally strong then suddenly he'll start thinking about it, when before he was sub-consciously doing the whole thing.
maybe then try and use these techniques on non elite athletes but what you've just said pretty much suggests that it's just psychological factors that separates at the elite level when clearly it's ability as well, i.e some people are just better at different skills than others

No you misread my point

Its Mental factors which distinguish between elite and elite.

Making someone more aware of mental side of the game is a plus for obvious reasons.

ooops, sorry for interrupting...that was a true story by the way.

Tommy Bowe three years ago wasnt being used effectively by ulster, and noone was giving him the time of day really internationally. He went to Ospreys and started to get decent service, and surrounded by a big spending club's high paid players, he flourished. Not sure about the sports psychology biut, maybe it did something for hime, but i hink being seen as a valued player by a team outside ireland, and being surounded by class internationals from down under as well as up here, made him psychologically strong.

I think a good coach/mentor can be a good sports psychologist. When you wor with people for many years, you can point them in the right direction, and spot their talents. anyone can be a spots psychologist with the right experioence.

with regards to tommy bowe, 4 years ago he was 23 (probably the equivalent to about 20 in football), now he's 27. maybe he just got better with age? like 90% of other people. if not maybe he had an obvious psychological issue and needed the help. sounds like your professor may have been over-hyping things to make you believe in his subject more, or it was unintentional and he's so passionate about it he genuinely believes it 100% down to his psychological methods in sam allardyce back-patting style

on tommy.

the fact is that since the won the euro cup about 13 years ago, ulster have been absolutely crap, never getting past the groups in theheineken cup.

Tommy bowe simply wasnt playing with good enough players. He was also getting hounded inthe irish media as they were blaming him fo the teams inadequacies.

Unlike football, you cant excel in rugby unless the whole team is doing well.

So it ws age, and it was him realising he could mix it with the best. He also would have gotten alot of wosdom from the older playrs at ospreys when he got there.

Now, the man i a national hero, literally, and is a world class, WORLD class winger, that would be in any natinal team squad, including New Zealands.

Maybe the shrink helped, but the move and the background to who he was playing at was more important i believe- cos hes a cocky fecker, in a likeable way.

getting better with age meaning with experience he basically learnt what works and what doesn't work, coaches helping along the way making him into a better player.
and yep i did understand your earlier point about it differentiating within the elite level. and my point was even within the top level certain players are just a bit better at certain skills than others. tiger woods is a better putter than jack nicklaus was for example.
personally i think if you or your professor (what is this karate kid? 😉 ) thinks it's 100% down to psychology that's just unbelievably arrogant and moronic. it's like when physiology papers conclude that higher physical activity levels decrease the risk of some random cancer. it fails to acknowledge that someone with higher physical activity levels is likely to have a better diet, drink less, smoke less amongst numerous other conflicting variables.

jesus, i missed that- 100% down to psychology my hole. absolute arrogant bollox-talk (no offence DB, but defo not with tommy bowe).

99% perspiration, 1% inspiration.

sure shrinks can be useful, but they aint that important db, no way.

rbj i don't really watch rugby, i only know tommy bowe having heard the name as opposed to watching him play. all i have is his wiki page that shows he was winning several young player and players player of the year awards more recently so must have had lots of potential that has now been fully realised.
things like you say like changing clubs, playing with better players, and generally just developing technically and tactically with age must surely be pretty big factors. not just some guy setting him a few goals and making him think a bit differently.
anyway i'm off to sleep, big cricket game tomorrow. interesting convo db. i only get a bit wound up when i read you reply to someone (me in this case) i've studied so and so for x years, i've lived in country x for x years.

you in particular should look him up- he's gorgeous! Fine strapping thighs on him 😀

Night night.