Community Submissions
7 October 2016 42 comments
J0E J0E
Share:

With seven Gameweeks’ worth of data I thought I’d take a look in detail at my Goals Imminent table to whether looking at criteria such as goal attempts, shots in the box and shots on target we can predict they players who  may do well in the coming weeks.

This will look at the last three Gameweeks tables and also ahead to Gameweek 8 to see if there are any emerging trends to take note of as we attempt to predict those who are set to score.

This article is restricted to Members. More details about Membership can be found here.

First of all here’s a quick look at how the table is constructed.

The key focus is a minimum of 10 goal attempts over the previous four matches, with no more than one goal over that period. The table is then sorted by goal attempts, restricted to 10 players, and includes shots in the box and shots on target. This helps to assess some of the reasons why prolific shooters are failing to turn good stats into goals. Are the shots off target too often? Or are they shooting from too far out?

So let’s have a look back at previous tables to see what we can learn.

J0E Podcaster and writer. Tweets stats and stuff via @FFScout_Joe Follow them on Twitter

42 Comments Login to Post a Comment
  1. J0E
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • Has Moderation Rights
    • 16 Years
    9 years, 2 months ago

    Be also good to hear from any members that have constructed their own goals imminent tables - perhaps looking at a shorter time frame of say two weeks to see if that ups the prediction factor.

  2. TheTinman
    • 10 Years
    9 years, 2 months ago

    The big problem I have with this table is it discounts players who have scored more than one goal in last 10gws or whatever it is.

    There is absolutely nothing which says a player is less likely to score because he scored last week and the week before.

    It's like roulette, if 0 comes up this spin it is just as likely to come up next spin.

    So why would I look at these players over someone who has better stats and is scoring regularly? I don't want someone who hasn't been scoring and might score next week. I want someone who is most likely to score next week. Whether they were scoring previously or not makes no difference.

    It's a concept called variance. Look it up and you will understand the failings of the goals imminent table.

    1. J0E
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • Has Moderation Rights
      • 16 Years
      9 years, 2 months ago

      I already have a table for that though. In fact most Members do. I maintain that those are far better as well as they are focusing on the whole on those who are turning attempts to goals - mainly because they are shooting accurately and closer.

      Here's one I use - but pretty much most members have something like this. http://members.fantasyfootballscout.co.uk/my-stats-tables/view/11275/

      What goals imminent table does though is attempt to pinpoint those who haven't been scoring but could - therefore either under the radar or players like Zlatan where its good to look at why he's not scoring.

      But you've given me food for thought there and perhaps upping the criteria to no more than two goals rather than one. I don't want it to replicate the simple - who has scored tables - but that could offer an insight over four games into a few more players.

      Will definitely ponder that one.

      1. TheTinman
        • 10 Years
        9 years, 2 months ago

        The point I am trying to make is that it doesn't matter how many goals a player has scored be it high or low.

        If you are basing predictions analysis on stats such as shots on target, shots in the box etc. Then goals scored doesn't matter at all.

        I would say both tables can be done together and neither should include goals scored.

        Possibly a table including goals scored could be identified as a hot streak table or something similar.

        Different people interpret these sort of tables completely. But for me there is no point in having the two different tables both showing who we expect to score next week 🙂

        1. J0E
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • Has Moderation Rights
          • 16 Years
          9 years, 2 months ago

          See below re Baines on Toast's point about trying to factor confidence in as well through big chances missed. I guess one benefit of goals imminent is that it is also highlighting why players aren't doing well and trying to put some objective stats behind the subjective eye test.

          So perhaps renaming it as 'My Mum Could Have Scored That' or "How did he miss that!?!' 😉

          Its also doing a different job than looking at goals scored.

          So for example the adding of big chances missed shows that perhaps Ibrahimovic appears to be actually lacking confidence. The eye test doesn't quite show that as Zlatan is not someone who ever looks anything other than resplendent in confidence.

          • 12 Years
          9 years, 2 months ago

          Well said Tinman, now to plug a table that does what you're asking for: http://members.fantasyfootballscout.co.uk/public-stats-tables/view/12374/

          🙂

          1. J0E
            • Fantasy Football Scout Member
            • Has Moderation Rights
            • 16 Years
            9 years, 2 months ago

            Yep, similar to my table posted above. Lots doing these.

            Out of interest do you tend to go for last four or last two as a good way of measuring recent form.

            I tend to go last four, but wonder if that may be too long.

            1. TheTinman
              • 10 Years
              9 years, 2 months ago

              I think you're right Jonty. One must consider a lot of tables and stats to paint the bigger picture. 🙂

              • 12 Years
              9 years, 2 months ago

              I use all matches or last six. For recent activity on specific players I'll use fourfourtwo's stats zone action maps.

              1. J0E
                • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                • Has Moderation Rights
                • 16 Years
                9 years, 2 months ago

                Cheers. Last six may be something to consider for me as well.

          2. TheTinman
            • 10 Years
            9 years, 2 months ago

            How you doing mate? Haven't heard you on here yet this season!

              • 12 Years
              9 years, 2 months ago

              All good thanks, I just pop in for community articles and Hot Topics at the moment and I don't see that changing soon.

      2. RedLightning
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • Has Moderation Rights
        • 15 Years
        9 years, 2 months ago

        Why is Koscielny missing from your One Stat to Rule Them All table?
        Are other significant players missing too?

        1. J0E
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • Has Moderation Rights
          • 16 Years
          9 years, 2 months ago

          He's there, just really far down. Its sorted by goal attempts and as a centre back he has hardly any goal attempts compared to the likes of Aguero and Ibrahimovic.

          People shouldn't get Koscielny in on the basis of the odd goal. He won't score 20 goals a season. They need to be looking at clean sheet based tables for him - that's the bread and butter of defenders.

          1. RedLightning
            • Fantasy Football Scout Member
            • Has Moderation Rights
            • 15 Years
            9 years, 2 months ago

            I still can't see him there, and your table even includes players with only one goal attempt, only one shot in the box and none on target.

            Obviously he isn't going to score 20 goals a season, but neither are most of the others in the table, and you have included a number of other defenders.

            Clean sheets may be the bread and butter of the cheaper defenders, but the best defenders should be able to supplement these with the occasional goal or assist or extra bonus points.

            Koscielny has scored 17 goals in 180 league appearances over 6 and a bit seasons for Arsenal, so his goal threat should not be discounted.

            1. J0E
              • Fantasy Football Scout Member
              • Has Moderation Rights
              • 16 Years
              9 years, 2 months ago

              I haven't restricted numbers as there's s few metrics there. Obviously the ones at the top of each column are the best.

              Re attacking defender stats I've got a table for that too - that's a different criteria to look at that tho. If you want to see how attacking koscielny is comparing him to Aguero isn't going to get you very far . Comparing him to pva, Dann, walker etc .., well thats obviously going to be better.

              1. J0E
                • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                • Has Moderation Rights
                • 16 Years
                9 years, 2 months ago

                Here's that attacking defenders one http://members.fantasyfootballscout.co.uk/my-stats-tables/view/4494/

          2. RedLightning
            • Fantasy Football Scout Member
            • Has Moderation Rights
            • 15 Years
            9 years, 2 months ago

            Also, his goal threat is increasing: 2 goals in each of his first 4 seasons, 3 in 2014-15, 4 in 2015-16 and 2 already this season.

  3. Baines on Toast...
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 15 Years
    9 years, 2 months ago

    The problem with shots on target is that it doesn't account for, say, big chances missed, and whether getting the chances is a good thing or missing them shows confidence is shot.

    Ibra in the stoke game is case in point. More shots on target, but chances like that one in the first few minutes are harder to miss the target than hit it. In that case, an SOT is almost a bad thing, because it looked timid, like a player who doesn't trust he can score with his feet from open play - which, unless I'm mistaken, he's only done twice at United so far (once from in the box).

    1. J0E
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • Has Moderation Rights
      • 16 Years
      9 years, 2 months ago

      Good point. So perhaps adding in big chances missed would improve it. I'll try that now.

      1. J0E
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • Has Moderation Rights
        • 16 Years
        9 years, 2 months ago

        Brilliant. You are spot on with that. Added it in and gives that other dimension - fluffing obvious chances. I'll alter the text now as well to make note of that.

        1. Ronnies
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 10 Years
          9 years, 2 months ago

          Hey Jonty,

          What do u think of these 2 transfer for a -4 ?

          ibra > lukaku
          townsend > firmino

          Tnks man.

          1. J0E
            • Fantasy Football Scout Member
            • Has Moderation Rights
            • 16 Years
            9 years, 2 months ago

            I'd possibly wait for that. Save the transfer with Townsend playing West Ham next and Lukaku facing City away.

            The week after though I'd do that for free.

        2. Baines on Toast...
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 15 Years
          9 years, 2 months ago

          Wow, didn't realise Ibra had actually clocked up more than Pogba. Interesting to see the impact in it - some kind of combination of BCM and SOT, for the chaps on this table, could be telling.

          Siggy and Eriksen, for example, with 4 SOT and no BCM, look interesting - but again it's driven by shots from range. So perhaps Redmond - 9 SITB with only 1 BCM, and Payet (6 and 0) who are the standouts now.

          1. J0E
            • Fantasy Football Scout Member
            • Has Moderation Rights
            • 16 Years
            9 years, 2 months ago

            Great. This is the value of the goals imminent table that offers more than the other I posted above and Balders one as well....it looks at what certain players are doing wrong as well as right in front of goal.

            That adding of BCM has transformed how I look at this table.

            cheers again.

  4. President Giggs
    • 12 Years
    9 years, 2 months ago

    Whilst I agree that adding Big Chances Missed does improve the table, I think it's quite difficult to jump to any major conclusion without actually seeing these chances. They might have all been spectacular saves from the goalkeeper, or they may have missed the target from 8 yards out. I think that seeing lots of big chances missed is reassurance that Ibra is getting some very good chances, and as we all know that he is a fantastic striker he will start putting them away.

  5. L S P
    • 10 Years
    9 years, 2 months ago

    Cheers to Jonty and everyone who has contributed to this thread - really good stuff.

    1. J0E
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • Has Moderation Rights
      • 16 Years
      9 years, 2 months ago

      Thanks

  6. J0E
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • Has Moderation Rights
    • 16 Years
    9 years, 2 months ago

    So to recap there is obvious value in finding out why certain players are scoring well, whether its putting away big chances or shooting frequently and on target.

    One Stat to Rule them all - http://members.fantasyfootballscout.co.uk/my-stats-tables/view/11275/

    Balders' Hot Shots - http://members.fantasyfootballscout.co.uk/public-stats-tables/view/12374/

    There's also value in looking at who is messing up, to see if they have any good stats to convince us they can turn it around. This table also contains information about those who are scoring AND messing up. This table is particularly interesting as when sorting by last four gwks a player I was tempted to get in is actually really messing up his chances. Could that mean he is capable of scoring far more? Or is losing confidence?

    Can't Hit a Barn Door - http://members.fantasyfootballscout.co.uk/my-stats-tables/view/16995/

    Then there's goals imminent that strips out goals scored to showcase only those who are getting lots of chances but failing to convert them. This then takes out those like the player I mentioned above who are scoring as well as messing up. See article for link.

    Conclusion - I think there is value in all three but ultimately the best predictor of goals, as has been said before over the years here, is likely to be goals scored- as that indicates a confident player, with good all round attacking skills playing in a good side.

  7. Twelve years a slave
    • 15 Years
    9 years, 2 months ago

    What these statistics all lack is the factoring in of opposition strength.
    When only considering the last Four matches a players statistics are
    likely to be wildly different if their last Four fixtures were Utd City Arsenal and Tottenham
    than if they were Hull, Bournemouth, Stoke and Boro

    1. Twelve years a slave
      • 15 Years
      9 years, 2 months ago

      It is therefore no surprise that Ibrahimovic was more accurate at home to Stoke. He likely had
      more time to compose himself than if he had been playing away to a side like Tottenham who
      would have kept a far closer watch on him.

      Maybe a multiplyer of some sort needs to be introduced to account for opposition, Home or away
      etc, as the current stats look far too simplistic when they take no account of opponent

      1. J0E
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • Has Moderation Rights
        • 16 Years
        9 years, 2 months ago

        Good point.

        Currently all I could do is filter by home or away, but not home or away by a timeline. With just a few games so far that's doable now, so it might be a case of adding a global filter to it. But to do home and away within say last six would require some work behind the scenes to update the Members filter.

        Another new feature could be using the season ticket to add in a fixture difficulty metric by combining the season ticker with the members table. Once again that would require a bit of work though if possible. Will definitely note down though.

        I think simple home and away is too simplistic as well as some teams perform better away or are poor at home. I like the merging of fixture difficulty idea alot though. That'd really add in some vital extra info.

  8. Bolivian Seaman
    • 15 Years
    9 years, 2 months ago

    The table has always done well, so don't forget that. You had the correct main stats. You could say which on the table is likely to come off it and which aren't. So just colour code the better options

    1. J0E
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • Has Moderation Rights
      • 16 Years
      9 years, 2 months ago

      Another good new feature idea. We could add in arrows perhaps as well to show whether they are moving up or down the table.

  9. Ruth_NZ
    • 10 Years
    9 years, 2 months ago

    "Dimitri Payet’s one shot on target didn’t bode well but nevertheless he still scored. His shots on target to goal rate over the last few games doesn’t look sustainable. But he is a player with such accuracy from set pieces that he could be an anomaly in terms of the table."

    This is the problem with relying on any one table or any one metric (as has been observed above).

    Payet actually has the 3rd highest number of goal attempts among midfielders (4 weeks). You say that "his shots on target to goal rate over the last few games doesn’t look sustainable" but his attempts to goal rate looks more than sustainable (1 goal from 17 attempts). Last season he put around 40% of his attempts on target and scored 9 goals from 28 on-target efforts. If there is a reversion due here it may actually be towards a better SoT percentage and more goals, not less.

    It is true that Payet's attempts are more often from outside the box than with some others. But his set piece expertise is such that this may also matter less than with others (as you observed). In addition, the volume of attempts show how central to West Ham's attacking play he is.

    Finally (and here's the point) he also leads among all midfielders for chances created. Almost double any Liverpool mid for example (19 to 10). This may not make him "goals imminent" but it does make him "points imminent". And points is what we are after, whether they come through through goals, assists or BPs is less important.

    1. J0E
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • Has Moderation Rights
      • 16 Years
      9 years, 2 months ago

      I don't think anyone would advocate looking at only one table. I certainly haven't.

      Also as I say what the table doesn't factor in is Payet's incredible accuracy from free kicks. Payet is all
      about assists though so tables with chances are definitely the ones to watch for there. When Payet falls down those then its time to worry.

      I do also have an assists imminent table as well as others that look at chances created with those already assisting.

      1. J0E
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • Has Moderation Rights
        • 16 Years
        9 years, 2 months ago

        Assists imminent - some big names on this. Payet obvs not on it as he is 'assist arrived'.

        http://members.fantasyfootballscout.co.uk/my-stats-tables/view/7385/

      2. Ruth_NZ
        • 10 Years
        9 years, 2 months ago

        Well, your comments (quoted) were based on what that one table said (although I don't entirely agree with those conclusions anyway for the reasons given).

        I guess I'm simply saying that you have to look at a player in the round and therefore at his stats in the round too.

        One thing I'd like to ask... do you think "goals imminent" is actually a valid concept at all? For example, if you are tossing a coin and it comes up "tails" 5 times in a row is "heads" imminent? Mathematicians would say not, they'd say the chance on the next throw is still 50/50 (unless the coin is weighted, in which case tails again is imminent).

        What I do like about the table is that it identifies players that are doing well but might have been unlucky. I wish Bony (who is in my team) was in your goals imminent table. I'd like to see him in any table to be honest. Ah well.

        1. J0E
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • Has Moderation Rights
          • 16 Years
          9 years, 2 months ago

          I think your final comment nails it - it's value is exactly that - to look at those players that are not scoring but could if they improved in a certain area (accuracy), or with better fixtures.

          Factoring in the opposition in addition to looking at the simple stats in the table is key. Also worth noting whether they were up against a defender or goalkeeper who was having a great day. In addition there could have been an unucky incident as well such as a poor referee decision.

          If a player is on this list then there is hope. If they are not and not on any others as well it may be there are better options.

          Trouble is for me - my Bony is Ibra...who is all over this table and others, except of course the main one - goals scored.

  10. RPK
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 10 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    I would suggest you also add a 'threat' column , just like big chances missed.