Dugout Discussion
16 January 2012 3783 comments
Akers Akers
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League leaders Manchester City travel to the DW Stadium tonight, looking to put breathing space between themselves and their city rivals. The Dugout Discussion chatroom opens in anticipation of the conclusion of Gameweek 21.

Both team sheets have been handed in, and here is how they line-up on this horribly cold Monday night…

Wigan XI: Al Habsi, Stam, Alcaraz, Caldwell, Figueroa, McArthur, McCarthy, Gomez, Crusat, Rodallega, Moses.

Man City XI: Hart, Zabaleta, Savic, Lescott, Clichy, Milner, Barry, Nasri, Silva, Aguero, Dzeko.

Roberto Martinez continues with Albert Crusat, who manages to shake off a slight back injury to start tonight. James McArthur begins for only the third time in the league this season, replacing Mohamed Diame who is unavailable thanks to the African Cup of Nations.

Manchester City are forced to partner Jolean Lescott and Stefan Savic at centre-back once more, despite a very ropey performance in their defeat to United last weekend. Elsewhere, David Silva is restored to the starting line-up, Sergio Aguero partners Edin Dzeko up front, and Pablo Zabaleta replaces Micah Richards.

Follow all the action in our Dugout Discussion chatroom, which can be accessed right here.

Akers Richard or Akers, as he is known, has been regularly haunting this site since July 2008. He is young and foolish, take what he says with a pinch of salt. Follow them on Twitter

  1. sotothemightygreek
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    Repost. Ignored on previous page.

    Just toying with the Wildcard and had an idea for a slightly different looking team. What would ye make of something like this? Front 8

    Silva, Bale, Valencia, Dempsey, Gerrard

    Morison, Fletcher, RVP

    The only potentially significant problem I can see is a lack of captain options. Any thoughts?

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    1. pony101
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Gerrard (playin too deep) to a 6ish mid like sess, upgrade morison to decko/ade (but suspended), decent and i like Fletch, could also put in Crouch

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    2. Jonah Takalua
      • 16 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      wolves and norwich are two horrible teams to be relying on for goals

      most weeks you're looking at 1, or 2 goals maximum and even thats pushing it particularly with wolves

      the mid is fine but all is not right at lpool and i reckon the gerrard money could be better spent, im also not convinced about dempsey(well fulham) away from home they appear an absolute write off and he aint cheap

      silva bale valencia (for cheap utd coverage through tough spell) and rvp great but id look to change rest

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  2. UnderstandablyDistraught
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    Is Crouch(for Ade and have the money for Aguero also) a worthwhile bet just for this week if I choose to hold off on WC.

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    1. pony101
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      yep him or fletch for a game

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      1. UnderstandablyDistraught
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        Wolves are playing at home. Is that correct?

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        1. pony101
          • 14 Years
          13 years, 11 months ago

          yep, villa are leaky, could be high scoring

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          1. UnderstandablyDistraught
            • 14 Years
            13 years, 11 months ago

            I never think of Wolves when it comes to goals. Might be the week to try them

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        2. UnderstandablyDistraught
          • 14 Years
          13 years, 11 months ago

          was being lazy, just checked. Thanks

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  3. Ribas
    • 13 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    two questions guys:

    Next Week play:

    Simpson or Senderos - FUlHAM -Newcastle

    McClean or Moses - Sunderland- swansea , QPR - Wigan

    Really can't decide,

    Thanks

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    1. pony101
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Senderos
      McClean deffo

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  4. pony101
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    Yep, him or Fletch for a game

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  5. jguti14
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    people are saying that arsenal dont ship too many goals at home as a response to captaining rooney this GW but in all honesty they havent played anyone at home!!

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    1. jas5sk - Youtube channel
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      It's all going to come down to "if Verm plays or not"

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      1. jguti14
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        great point

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        1. jguti14
          • 14 Years
          13 years, 11 months ago

          dudeeee imagine...djorou and miquel? wow they could get taken for a ride!

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    2. Captain Robert Hatch
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      get this MU score more than all but 2 clubs away from home

      feel free to captain senior assist

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  6. jas5sk - Youtube channel
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    Is Sturridge out of Chelsea's starting 11?

    Who would drop out for him, surely not Ramires?

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    1. Gubborr
      • 15 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Lampard

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    2. jguti14
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      i think theres a big chance hell be out, hes getting results with this stupid formation

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  7. Gubborr
    • 15 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    Kompany got red-carded nine days ago but his price is still the same ? Wtf is wrong with this season ? Let me guess EA..

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    1. King Eric, in America
      • 15 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Or people just deciding to not panic-sell.

      He was to be out 2 PL games. Meh.

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  8. Test Eagles
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    Can anyone see the Man City - Spurs game being high scoring, both a bit fragile at the back and will go all out attack to get the points?

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    1. DV8R
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Probably a draw... 1-1, Aguero and Defoe

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      1. jguti14
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        i see that too!! 1 1 for sure...

        arsenal man u?

        1-2?

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  9. Canadian Football
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    This high GW average has really stumped me!

    Quick Pole....GW total and Overall Rank!

    ME >>>>> GW43 overall 23,352 Droped 6,000

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    1. 1966 was a great year for E…
      • 15 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      I don't think the overall ranks have updated yet. It's going to get worse...

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      1. RedForLife
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        Was thinking the same. On 52 however gone down in Rank 3000.

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  10. pony101
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    Have Sturridge, but thinkin about Fletch, Crouch or Zamora in, stick or twist? And to which one?

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    1. pony101
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Any takers?!

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      1. RedForLife
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        Got Studge & keeping even on WC. Surely he's in Chelsea's best 11.

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        1. pony101
          • 14 Years
          13 years, 11 months ago

          I think so too, will wait tl avb press conference, would ya recommend a mid for 5.6 instead of ben arfa?

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          1. RedForLife
            • 14 Years
            13 years, 11 months ago

            hmm looks like the best value right now is cheaper then use the money elsewhere. Eg McClean, Moses, Dyer in that order for me.

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            1. pony101
              • 14 Years
              13 years, 11 months ago

              Leaning towards mcclean alright but will 3 sun then with ming and sess, 2 home games though

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              1. RedForLife
                • 14 Years
                13 years, 11 months ago

                Sess & McClean may be a bit much for me. But then again could work.. another though 1.

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          2. RedForLife
            • 14 Years
            13 years, 11 months ago

            Also, which do u prefer Shawcross, Raylor & Moses or Senderos, Santon & Walters. (Note Moses would be with McClean as 4th & 5th mid)

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            1. pony101
              • 14 Years
              13 years, 11 months ago

              I would lean towards B but tough to call, even though Stoke have decent fix, I think Walters is looking worse for wear after so many games but pens are always a factor

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              1. RedForLife
                • 14 Years
                13 years, 11 months ago

                yeh thinking tough 1. will hopefully get some help towards the end of the week! Cheers Pony.

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      2. UnderstandablyDistraught
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        You've sown the seed for Fletcher but still looking at Crouch myself.

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        1. UnderstandablyDistraught
          • 14 Years
          13 years, 11 months ago

          am also keeping Sturridge for now

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  11. Doctor X
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    How long till the Rooney assist update fellas? Pretty crucial to my mini league status right now.

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    1. DV8R
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Already updated and he's keeping them, it's been confirmed.

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    2. Fancy Feet
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      They have stated he will keep it
      http://fantasy.premierleague.com/the-scout/

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  12. Jonah Takalua
    • 16 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    just as a big warning to you all

    fletcher is this weeks ben arfa

    hes a decent player but in a horribly poor side

    dont react badly if he only gives you 2pts, you cant expect much from wolves

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    1. 1966 was a great year for E…
      • 15 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      When fit, Fletcher's been consistently good pretty much all season. Ben Arfa has hardly played.

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      1. Jonah Takalua
        • 16 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        i think fletcher is top side material personally

        but unfortunately he plays for wolves, so its not set in stone he will give you the returns his interest and mentions on here would suggest

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        1. 1966 was a great year for E…
          • 15 Years
          13 years, 11 months ago

          Fletcher, Morison and Yakubu have all done well in pretty bad sides. I haven't had any of them but if you need a cheap forward there's some decent options.

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      2. pony101
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        +1. even though i have ben arfa, any decent mids for 5.5 people to get him out?

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    2. Hyperion
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      At that price you can forgive a few 2 pointers.

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    3. Congressman
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      You never know.

      He might get a few lucky assists.

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  13. Hyperion
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    For two weeks:

    A) Hibbert -> Evans
    B) Hibbert -> Senderos
    C) Ade -> Morison
    D) Ade -> Welbeck
    E) Ade -> Zamora

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    1. Jonah Takalua
      • 16 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      hibbert to clark (villa)?

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      1. Hyperion
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        Could do, do you prefer him to Evans or Senderos then? Villa lacking in cleanies.

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        1. Jonah Takalua
          • 16 Years
          13 years, 11 months ago

          yes definitely

          midfielder with an eye for goal, 2 great fixtures

          well worth the punt

          evans hard games and no attacking threat, senderos donkey in boring team

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    2. pony101
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      B and E

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      1. Hyperion
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        If you could only do one?

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        1. pony101
          • 14 Years
          13 years, 11 months ago

          Prob B if you can play an extra mid or def instead of ade, everton are iffy with injuries at the back

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          1. Hyperion
            • 14 Years
            13 years, 11 months ago

            OK cheers pal.

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  14. Congressman
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    Is Ireland worth a shout as an under 6m mid?

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    1. pony101
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      I think so with decent fixtures

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  15. Drop Dead Tsimikas
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    Post-WC, I've got:

    Sorensen
    Shawcross-Enrique-JEvans
    Sess-Dempsey-Bale-Walters
    Fletcher-RVP-Aguero

    Krul-Valencia-RTaylor-BAE

    Thoughts?

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    1. pony101
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Class team, very little wrong, how much is the team worth? Poss Sorensen to MIng to reduce stoke coverage, sun have two home games

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      1. pony101
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        Could also do walters to murphy, decent fix and also on pens

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        1. Drop Dead Tsimikas
          • 14 Years
          13 years, 11 months ago

          Walters takes PKs too, Murphy makes it two cottagers...not sure I want that.

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      2. Drop Dead Tsimikas
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        Grabbed O'Shea for Shawcross for the same purpose. Team's worth 105.4 with .4 in the bank. Was over 107, but used WC and did something stupid - sold RVP and then wasted .7 to get him back.

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    2. patshaw
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      mmmm would play valencia... against miqel....

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      1. Drop Dead Tsimikas
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        Whom to bench? Not against doing that at all.

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  16. _____JR_____
    • 15 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    A) Simpson + Cahill
    B) Raylor + Caulker

    A or B?.

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    1. _____JR_____
      • 15 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Come on guys

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      1. RedForLife
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        Having the same problem JR. Just not 100% on Cahill starting or Raylor keeping his place in the midfield.

        Which do u prefer here Shawcross, Raylor & Moses or Senderos, Santon & Walters. (Note Moses would be with McClean as 4th & 5th mid)

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  17. 1966 was a great year for E…
    • 15 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    Rankings updated.

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    1. DV8R
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Green arrow for me

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      1. pony101
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        up to 40,000 from 57ish

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    2. King Eric, in America
      • 15 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      53 points, terrible week for me. Jones and Kompany bled me of 10 CS points I 'should' have had ...

      Red arrows abound - BUT my overall actually went *up* ~100 places. Huh.

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    3. RedForLife
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Ended up going down but by only 12 places! still around the 8k mark. So not too disappointed! In fact if some Silva bonus comes through may get me over the line for a green arrow!

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  18. Jonah Takalua
    • 16 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    im hoping henry cements a place pre wildcard bolton and blackburn in a row coming up

    we reckon he could manage 2 games in a few days? perfect warm up act for ba

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    1. pony101
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Too risky i think, plenty of strikers goin well or with better prospects at that price, stur, fletch, crouch, zamora, odem, even wellbeck or bellamy

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  19. ⭐ ABHISHEK - THE CURIOUS …
    • 15 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    This gameweek average is Preety High...any reason for it ?

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    1. DV8R
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Probably due to auto subs for Sturridge, Jones and Richards not playing. Lots had Dyer on the bench

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    2. Hyperion
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Newcastle/Raylor. Buggers.

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      1. pony101
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        +1

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    3. ⭐ ABHISHEK - THE CURIOUS …
      • 15 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Rtaylor and Dyer has a hugh % of Ownership. 🙁

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  20. halnone
    • 15 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    was on 48k before today. I get 6 points from Silva and now I'm down 4,000 places.
    Makes no sense.

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    1. TorresMagic™
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • Has Moderation Rights
      • 16 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      It's called autsubs.

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      1. halnone
        • 15 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        oh. I didn't think auto subs had been done yet.

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    2. SuperDunny - Used to be goo…
      • 16 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      wow i actually went up a few place despite my GW rank fall. Must be a load of dead teams that did well!

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    3. Barnsley FC
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Almost all the top teams have silva. A lot of the others also have aguero, whose 2 appearance points cost you those 4,000 places.

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      1. SuperDunny - Used to be goo…
        • 16 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        Well i just check the top 3 and none of them have him. Which 'top teams' are you referring to?

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        1. Barnsley FC
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 14 Years
          13 years, 11 months ago

          Keep going beyond the top 3 then.. He's at over 40% ownership.

          Also, the word you're looking for is checked, not check.

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          1. TorresMagic™
            • Fantasy Football Scout Member
            • Has Moderation Rights
            • 16 Years
            13 years, 11 months ago

            The thing is he had Silva too so that 40% means nothing unless they captained him.

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            1. Barnsley FC
              • Fantasy Football Scout Member
              • 14 Years
              13 years, 11 months ago

              Yeah I'm assuming a lot of people had him, though some people had other city/wigan players as well, so the appearance points added on to silva's points.

              Autosubs makes more sense though..

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          2. King Eric, in America
            • 15 Years
            13 years, 11 months ago

            Pedantic much?

            I believe you wanted to end that sentence with *one* period, not *two*.

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          3. SuperDunny - Used to be goo…
            • 16 Years
            13 years, 11 months ago

            Which top teams have you seen him in then?

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      2. TorresMagic™
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • Has Moderation Rights
        • 16 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        Just say autosubs. 😕

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  21. TorresMagic™
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • Has Moderation Rights
    • 16 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    20% League qualifying score up to 56. My 58 might not even be safe when baps come out. 🙁

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  22. HappyAnkit
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    59 points with Silva's bonus pts remaining.

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  23. TorresMagic™
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • Has Moderation Rights
    • 16 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    Current Millionaire Club safety scores are

    0 hits = 51, 1 hit = 56, 2 hits = 59

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    1. isacki: full casual
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      I'm out! 😀 what a topsy turvy season.

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      1. TorresMagic™
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • Has Moderation Rights
        • 16 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        Plenty will be going out & the 20% League is alot tougher.

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    2. The Japanager: Roberto Newm…
      • 15 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      I'm out of both with 50.

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  24. UnderstandablyDistraught
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    Going green!!! Phew

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  25. Hyperion
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    May or may not play WC but making transfer now in case I don't; have narrowed it down to the following for a two week punt:

    A) Hibbert -> Senderos, or B) Ade -> Welbeck?

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    1. pony101
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      A prob

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  26. _____JR_____
    • 15 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    A) Simpson + Cahill
    B) Raylor + Caulker

    A or B?.

    **REPOSTED BECAUSE EVERY1 IGNORING ME**

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    1. Hyperion
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Lol, u mad?

      Tough one. A if you have Vorm, B if not.

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      1. _____JR_____
        • 15 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        I have Vorm.

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    2. pony101
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      B I think

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    3. Gubborr
      • 15 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      simpson + raylor > b > a

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      1. _____JR_____
        • 15 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        double up on toon defense?? dont tink so m8!

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    4. RedForLife
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Having the same problem JR. Just not 100% on Cahill starting or Raylor keeping his place in the midfield. B if I had to choose though.

      Which do u prefer here Shawcross, Raylor & Moses or Senderos, Santon & Walters. (Note Moses would be with McClean as 4th & 5th mid)

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      1. _____JR_____
        • 15 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        2nd group. Dont like Moses he is not consistent. Is Santon nailed on though? Sendoros has ez games comin up2!

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        1. RedForLife
          • 14 Years
          13 years, 11 months ago

          I believe he is & offers more attacking threat the Simp who I current have. Williamson is another option that looks more secure for mins.

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          1. _____JR_____
            • 15 Years
            13 years, 11 months ago

            Hmmm i have simpson for 4.2 and hes 4.4 now so dunno wat t do....

            Mignolet or Sorrenson??

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            1. RedForLife
              • 14 Years
              13 years, 11 months ago

              Have the same dilemma with Simo.

              Stoke look more secure to me. Tough call as both may be prone to rotation.

              I'll be keeping Vorm & going for Lindegaard.

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  27. China Mag
    • 15 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    Morning deadzoners.

    If I gamble with Torres over aguero then I can upgrade kelly and shotton to senderos and shawcross. What do you reckon? A couple of factors to consider:

    1) I am chasing in my mini league, and most of those above me have aguero. Nobody has Torres. (Torres)
    2) Kelly and Shotton are both rotation threats, but the way my squad would be set up, I could handle one missing out each week. (Aguero)
    3) I've being fancying a torres gamble since I saw his performance on saturday, but i'm not sure if there is enough of a saving (1.1m) from going for torres over the more nailed on points of ageuro (Aguero)
    4) City have better fixtures (Aguero)
    5) "My wife's team" has aguero, and I try to avoid doubling up over the two teams if possible

    Need to decide by the weekend. Cheers

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    1. China Mag
      • 15 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Will also have RVP and a mid priced striker keeping Ba's place warm. Possibly Crouch. Silva in midfield.

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    2. pony101
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Worth a punt with chel against too promoted teams, chel are a team that coud destroy em in a high scoring game, keep kelly and do shotton to brown maybe keep cash in reserve so u can get aguero if experiment fails

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    3. Hyperion
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      I tend to err on the side of caution at that price and go for proven points scorers, but you're chasing and a Torres punt is much more fun.

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    4. King Eric, in America
      • 15 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Maybe because it's late, but I'm going to say 'Torres'

      You make fine points, plus: you can always 'slide' over to another striker if Nando remains in Footy Scoring Purgatory after the weekend.

      Aguero is a weird case, as he seems to threaten more than produce. I like the defense upgrades, as well. Wildcard?

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    5. RedForLife
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Like the punt especially as ur chasing & get 2 nailed on def's with good fixtures.

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      1. China Mag
        • 15 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        Wow! I was expecting a big push for aguero. Hmmmm. How about this. Torres for the next two (city have TOT, eve), and leave a free transfer so I can downgrade sessegnon (after NOR, SWA) and upgrade Torres to Aguero if the punt doesn't work?

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        1. RedForLife
          • 14 Years
          13 years, 11 months ago

          Good thinking. Again especially cause ur chasing. Note I did get burnt by Torres early in the season.

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    6. SuperDunny - Used to be goo…
      • 16 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      I have much the same dilemma although it is complicated further (no matter what Mr Priest says!) by also owning Sturridge. Probably gonna be Aguero for me but i'm very tempted to go for Torres

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  28. Henry Hill
    • 16 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    Anyone taking a punt on Darren bent? thinking of getting him in for Ade

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    1. pony101
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      FIerce pricey but due a few

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    2. Barnsley FC
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      I can't decide between bent or torres for a 2 week punt. Both looks like good options at this point.

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  29. pony101
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    Out of 10 folks?
    Ming
    Enrique Senderos Shawx
    Sess Val Dempsey Bale
    RVP Roon Stur
    Krul Ben Arfa BAE Evans

    Any changes needed?

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  30. GashGordon
    • 14 Years
    13 years, 11 months ago

    Vorm/Krul
    Send/Enrique/Bos or Terry??
    Sess/Bale/Demp/Silva
    RVP/Stur/Torres(c)

    Roonpig in GW23

    Thoughts please lads?????

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    1. GashGordon
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Roonpig for Torres.

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    2. pony101
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Terry, decent team lad

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      1. GashGordon
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        Whats your team for GW22 Pony??

        And nice one!

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    3. Hyperion
      • 14 Years
      13 years, 11 months ago

      Like it. If you're going Chelsea I reckon you might as well risk Cahill.

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      1. GashGordon
        • 14 Years
        13 years, 11 months ago

        im gambling with sturridge and RVP this GW if im honest.

        I need a Chelsea certain you know what i mean dude

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        1. Hyperion
          • 14 Years
          13 years, 11 months ago

          Fair enough. Terry in that case, none more certain than him.

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