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Player value and the most efficient use of the FPL budget: Part 2

Following my previous article looking at the most efficient way to use the FPL budget, I’ve rerun the numbers looking at the new season pricing with last year’s scores.

As a reminder, the approach I’m using is to take a base team of 11 of the cheapest possible players, then make upgrades to that team that offered the best value (points per million) until the team value was at £100m. You can read the full approach and some thoughts on its limitations in the previous article.

2019/20 Prices

Running the approach using 2019/20 prices and 2018/19 scores, the formula spits out the following team in a 4-5-1 formation as the optimum with a score of 2079 (excluding captain points):

GK: Ederson | 6.0m | 169
DEF: Virgil Van Dijk | 6.5m | 208
DEF: David Luiz | 6.0m | 164
DEF: Aymeric Laporte | 6.5m | 177
DEF: Andrew Robertson | 7.0m | 213
MID: Ryan Fraser | 7.5m | 181
MID: Gylfi Sigurdsson | 8.0m | 182
MID: Paul Pogba | 8.5m | 179
MID: Luka Milivojevic |7.0m | 166
MID: Mohammed Salah | 12.5m | 259
FWD: Jiminez | 7.5m | 181

Interestingly, the second best formation comes out as 5-4-1 at 2074, with Marcos Alonso (6.5m | 161) instead of Milivojevic.

FPL obviously price up players based on expected performance, so when we look back retrospectively, the underpriced gems rise to the fore and gives us more budget for the expensive midfield and forward options.

What would be interesting would be to see what the predictive picture would have looked like at the beginning of previous seasons and compare that to what things actually looked like retrospectively at the end of that season. This may give us some hints as to how the picture for 2019/20 will look compared to this predicted model.

2018/19 ‘Prediction’

I’ve rerun the formula with the 2018/19 prices, and the 2017/18 season scores. This emulates what we would have seen if we had done this same process at the start of last season. If we had done so, we would have had the following suggested team in 4-5-1 formation:

GK: Lukasz Fabianski | 4.5m | 157
DEF: Cesar Azpilicueta | 6.5m | 175
DEF: Marcus Alonso | 6.5m | 165
DEF: Antonio Valencia | 6.5m | 146
DEF: Nicholas Otamendi | 6.5m | 156
MID: Mohammed Salah | 13.0m | 303
MID: Abdoulaye Doucoure | 6.0m | 136
MID: Raheem Sterling | 11.0m | 229
MID: Pascal Gross | 7.0m | 164
MID: Luka Milivojevic | 6.5m | 144
FWD: Jamie Vardy | 9.0m | 183

The second best formation would have come out as 5-4-1, just a single point behind swapping out Valencia and Doucoure for Ben Davies (6.0m | 143) and Jan Vertonghen (6.0m | 138).

This mimics the same two top formations that come out of the 2019/20 predictive model.

Rerun 2017/18 ‘Prediction’

Running the same method as if we were at the start of the 2017/18 season with 2016/17 points totals gives us, yet again, 4-5-1 as the best predicted formation:

GK: Tom Heaton | 5.0m | 149
DEF: Charlie Daniels | 5.0m | 134
DEF: Marcus Alonso | 7.0m | 177
DEF: Gary Cahill | 6.5m | 178
DEF: Cesar Azpilicueta | 6.5m | 170
MID: Christian Eriksen | 9.5m | 218
MID: Gylfi Sigurdsson | 8.5m | 181
MID: Robert Snodgrass | 6.0m | 133
MID: Deli Alli | 9.5m | 225
MID: Sanchez | 12.0m | 264
FWD: Josh King | 7.5m | 178

Second best, only one point behind was 4-4-2, swapping Sigurdsson for Roberto Firmino (8.5m | 180). A further one point behind we see 5-4-1 appear again with Snodgrass dropping out for Gareth McAuley (5.0m | 131).

Comparing predictive to retrospective

Formation

The first thing that stands out, is that the predicted best line up using this method every year is 4-5-1, with 5-4-1 following closely behind.

What came out for the retrospective looks at the 2017/18 and 2018/19 seasons was a 3-5-2 (see the previous article for the full result). Each time 4-5-1 wasn’t far off, however 5-4-1 dropped a considerable distance behind (6th best formation each time on the retrospective).

Price Points

The reason that 5-4-1 looks like it will be a good formation at the start of the season is, simply, that the premium midfields/forwards that scored well are now really expensive! That means its hard to get many in and therefore much easier to get a better team with five big hitters at the back.

Why does 5-4-1 end the season so far off the pace? Those underpriced gems that emerge means more money to spread around. This also seems to be why 3-5-2 is better in retrospective than looking forward at the start.

So, for example, in 2018/19 Alexander-Arnold (5.0m | 185), Fraser (5.5m | 181), Wilson (6.0m | 168) and Jimenez (5.5m | 181) all outperformed their price significantly leaving enough money to upgrade the goalkeeper to Ederson (5.5m | 169), and a premium defender to Hazard (10.5m | 238)

In 2017/18 it was Salah (9m | 303), Sterling (8m | 229) and Gross (5.5m | 164) who allowed budget to upgrade a cheap forward to Firmino (8.5m | 181) and a cheap defender to Vardy (8.5m | 183).

Actual Players

In both seasons, there are players that look like they will be good value for money at the start of the season, and do in fact turn out to be that good. In 2018/19 it was Salah and Sterling, it was Eriksen, Alonso and Azpilicueta.

The aim of the exercise is not to predict which players are best to get, but more the themes that repeat season-after-season. Your team needs to be flexible to jump on the specific players that emerge and knowing the pattern of past seasons can help you prepare.

What to expect in 2019/20

At the start of the season the 6m and under midfielders and forwards look uninspiring, yet most seasons one or two options emerge scoring around the 170-180 mark.

At the start of the season, it looks like we need to cram in a couple of 11m+ big hitters, yet there’s almost always one or two in the 8-10m range that hit over 200 points.

For both those reasons, five at the back (often 5-4-1) looks tempting at the start of the season. In reality, once those overperforming players emerge, we simply can’t spend enough money in that formation to make it count and 3-5-2, 4-5-1 or 4-4-2 become better options.

Don’t start the season with a formation that doesn’t easily allow you to jump on a 5-6m midfielder/forward and an 8-10m midfielder/forward. Those are the price points you need to be able to jump to quickly.

For my team, I think Vardy and De Bruyne could be this season’s 8-10m men who hit the 200 mark. I really don’t know who the 6m or under player will be who hits the 170-180 range, but I’m fairly confident there will be at least one. I will start with four premium defenders at the back so that one of them can easily become a ~6m midfield or forward when that gem emerges.

Still to come…

A limitation of this approach is that it doesn’t account for rotating pairs in defence and attack and whether they can offer better value for money upgrades over keeping a single player in your team long term.

I am hoping to put together a follow-up article that will delve into the data and consider the case for rotating pairs.

96 Comments Post a Comment
  1. Euroalien
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 5 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    Great thought provoking article! Thanks for taking the time to provide this info.!

    1. Hedge
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      Cheers

  2. BadaBing
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 4 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    * rips up team

    1. Hedge
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      😀

  3. RedLightning
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • Has Moderation Rights
    • 13 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    How will captain points affect this analysis?
    They will certainly strengthen the need for Salah if he is to be the perma-captain, but may also strengthen the argument for including Sterling too, to share the captaincy with him.
    This would mean spending at least 3.5m extra on the second midfielder (if Sterling replaces Pogba), and that 3.5m would have to be saved elsewhere in your squad.

    Also, your analysis appears to assume that you don't get any additional points from auto-subs.
    It is possible that a higher score might be obtained by slightly upgrading the bench and slightly downgrading the starting eleven.

    1. Hedge
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      I don't think this way of looking at it directly addresses captaincy. I'm comfortable perma captaining Salah personally.

      A limitation of this way of looking at it is that subs aren't accounted for. I'm thinking of doing something on rotating pairs. I think when the season gets going and team value increases it's easier to get a decent playing bench. From the start I think I'll be risking it with one bench player for appearance points

      1. Veggente85
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 8 Years
        4 years, 9 months ago

        This reveal a "minor" limitation of the 4-5-1 formation. With this formation, your first bench player should be a nailed forward, in case of turnover for your only main team forward. Unfortunately, nailed forwards come at a minimum price of 5.5 (and I will feel safe only with a 6.0 like Murray) while you can get playing defenders or midfielders for 4.5.

        1. Hedge
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 12 Years
          4 years, 9 months ago

          Agreed, it's the main reason I'm not starting the season 451

  4. BadaBing
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 4 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    So start with a solid reliable premium back 5, but be sure to jump on the emerging bargains as early as possible? Maybe wc after 5/6 weeks?

    1. Hedge
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      I'm going four rather than five, but it could pay off with five. I think the high scoring defenders are easier to pick at the start

  5. RedLightning
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • Has Moderation Rights
    • 13 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    In both 2017-18 and 2018-19, the best theoretical dead team squads that I have seen were both in 4-4-2 formation:

    Optimal Dead Team Squad 2017-18 (4-4-2): (paper value 100.0, 0.0 in bank): 2559 points
    (G) de Gea(MUN,5.5, 172)
    (D) Azpilicueta(CHE,6.5, 175), Alonso(CHE,7.0, 165), Otamendi(MCI,5.5, 156), B.Davies(TOT,5.5, 143)
    (M) Salah(LIV,9.0, Captain, 303*2), Mahrez(LEI,8.5, Vice-captain, 195+16), Sterling(MCI,8.0, 229), Sane(MCI,8.5, 179)
    (F) Vardy(LEI,8.5, 183), Firmino(LIV,8.5, 181)
    Hennessey(CRY,4.5, Bench, 22), Perez(NEW,5.5, Bench 1, 69), Milivojevic(CRY,5.0, Bench 2, 60), Mariappa(WAT,4.0, Bench 3, 8)

    Optimal Dead Team Squad 2018-19 (4-4-2): (paper value 99.5, 0.5 in the bank): 2607 points
    (G) Pickford(EVE,5.0, Vice-captain, 161+37)
    (D) Robertson(LIV,6.0, 213) , van Dijk(LIV,6.0, 208), Alexander-Arnold(LIV,5.0, 185), Laporte(MCI,5.5, 177)
    (M) Sterling(MCI,11.0, Captain, 234*2), Hazard(CHE,10.5, 238), Sigurdsson(EVE,7.5, 182), Fraser(BOU,5.5, 181)
    (F) Aguero(MCI 11.0, 201), Wilson(BOU,6.0, 168)
    Lossl (HUD,4.5, Bench, 5), Jimenez(WOL,5.5, Bench 1, 94), Deulofeu(WAT,5.5, Bench 2, 63), Digne(EVE,5.0, Bench 3, 26)

    In 2014-15 and 2015-16 however the Optimal Dead Team Squad was 3-4-3.
    I don't have results for other seasons, but this shows why 3-4-3 used to be the go-to formation and also why 4 at the back has increased in popularity in recent seasons.

    1. The 12th Man
      • 10 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      Triple Liverpool defence again and Sterling (c) this season then for Zombie team .

      1. Wild Rover
        • 13 Years
        4 years, 9 months ago

        Does it stay your dead team when it scores 100 pts in gw1 and your main team gets 45?

        1. Queenofthestoneage
          • 4 Years
          4 years, 9 months ago

          It's a marathon, not a sprint

        2. The 12th Man
          • 10 Years
          4 years, 9 months ago

          No choice when your team gets kicked out the zombie league for any activity.

    2. Queenofthestoneage
      • 4 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      Sterling in both and triple pool defence in previous does build a case...

    3. Sharkytect
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 9 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      This is really useful as well!

      Good article and good comments. This is great! I love this website!

      1. Hedge
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 12 Years
        4 years, 9 months ago

        Thanks, it's a great site this, for sure

    4. Udo
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      Very interesting thanks, I am quite happy with 3 Liv def and Sterling (c) in my flexible 4-4-2.

  6. jtreble
    • 7 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    Nice work Hedge!

    1. Hedge
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      Thanks!

  7. SteJ
    • 4 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    Lovely analysis yet again. Will you be exposing your upgrade algorithm for general use at all?
    I'd love to employ your work to advise on a value team with a few selections that cannot be changed along with looking at different budget levels to facilitate a bit of a bench

    1. Hedge
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      It's basically just looking at who the best upgrade for each position is on a points per million basis then swapping in the best of the 11. Rinse and repeat.

      I've just created a SQL query to do the calc and a basic PHP front end to loop through

  8. Doubter2Believer
    • 10 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    Take 6.........

    Lloris

    VVD // Coleman // Zinchenko

    Salah // Siggy // Sterling // Perez

    Deulofeu // Wood // King

    Leno // Dendoncker // Aarons // Kelly

    Please rate/destroy..........

    1. Stonerrocks
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 11 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      Surely Mendy will play LB over Zinchenko? Keepers are both too pricey for my liking and I'm not a fan of Wood or Deulofeu. I think it's worth upgrading VVD to a Liverpool full back and getting another premium defender in

  9. Deadwing
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 5 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    Truly interesting. Cheers!

  10. Lebowski85
    • 11 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    Great article. Back to the drawing board then

  11. A Fat Spanish Waiter
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 9 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    From me, some serious kudos and then an honest critique:

    First, I can validate your 2019/20 optimization using last years data and this years prices. I am running a linear optimizer (so basically a completely different method) and I get the exact same results for both the 5-4-1 and 4-5-1. Well done. It goes to show there are several ways to get to the same result. I love this kind of analysis, and I think its great.

    Now for my honest criticism: It looks like you used 13m for bench fodder in all cases. That wont work because there are no 4.0 midfielders and forwards. All formations with 5 at the back must have at least 13.5 of bench fodder by definition. For me anyway, I model the bench fodder at 4/4.5/5.0 (def/mid/for) because those are the prices where you can possibly find minutes if a normal starter doesn’t play.

    If you do it that way, you find that the optimal formations (using last year’s scores), in order are:

    1) 4-2-2 (2068)
    2) 5-3-2 (2063)
    3) 5-4-1 (2061)
    4) 4-5-1 (2055)
    5) 5-3-2 (2052)
    6) 4-3-3 (2049)
    7) 3-5-2 (2046)
    8) 3-4-3 (2045)

    For me, the thing that immediately jumps off the page is how close these numbers are. 23 points between the top and the bottom. Back three setups look to be inferior based on last years data, but based on the insanity from Liverpool and City defenders last year (in addition to poor premium forward performance) its not hard to understand why.

    I agree there is value at the back, and I’ll have four good defenders for sure. However, if mid-level forwards find form or if city and pool start shipping goals, this whole thing goes out window. Remember RAM from last year?

    1. A Fat Spanish Waiter
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 9 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      By the way, if I have that 13m assumption wrong, forgive me. I had to try to “back into it”

    2. Hedge
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      No I did actually use different bench values depending on the formation. Some did get to the point where there was 0.5 left in the bank and no viable upgrade that cost 0.5 more, which is another limitation of the approach I guess.

      I agree, the predictive look has all the formations quite close. I guess this is because it's quite close to how FPL actually set the prices and try to balance it?

      By the end of the season the actual optimal is much further apart formation to formation. 5-2-3 is often more than 100 points off, for example

      1. A Fat Spanish Waiter
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 9 Years
        4 years, 9 months ago

        Ya, I was worried that I didn’t have my facts straight with the 13m. Mea culpa there.

        I’d love to get a look at your method. Your approach of using relative player values had occurred to me previously, but I’m frankly amazed it generates the exact same result (players, score, everything) as a linear model. Happy to share my stuff as well. I’ve got a transfer optimizer built in too, but it’s brute force based. I’m sure there is a better way.

        1. Hedge
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 12 Years
          4 years, 9 months ago

          LP is beyond my experience, mine is a simply SQL query that I run repetitively until I hit the budget. I can dig out the SQL for you later when I'm not on my phone if you like

          1. SteJ
            • 4 Years
            4 years, 9 months ago

            I'd love to see it too!
            Thoughts for other analysis topics.
            Best time to use each chip.
            Performance of players by gameweek (e.g. do forwards do better at the start and end of the season but drop off in the middle)

          2. A Fat Spanish Waiter
            • Fantasy Football Scout Member
            • 9 Years
            4 years, 9 months ago

            Hit me up on twitter if you want @robertdovenberg. I can PM your here and get you the file. It’s done in a spreadsheet, so you can see the mechanics. It will really help you with your rotation idea.

            1. Hedge
              • Fantasy Football Scout Member
              • 12 Years
              4 years, 9 months ago

              Have sent you a DM on twitter

    3. jojon440
      • 9 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      Never even thought about 4-2-2 before!

      1. A Fat Spanish Waiter
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 9 Years
        4 years, 9 months ago

        It’s that little known formation where two midfielders are intentionally sent off. Honestly, I wish we could edit these posts...I saw that error right after I hit the button.

      2. Baps hunter
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 6 Years
        4 years, 9 months ago

        Me neither 😉 It is 4-4-2.

    4. LangerznMash
      • 7 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      First off I'd like to congratulate and thank both Hedge and Fat Spanish Waiter on such in-depth analysis.
      May I ask you to correct the typo on either 2) or 5), i'm guessing from the number pattern that 5) is actually 5-2-3?

      I completely agree with your conclusions regarding FPL pricings and poor premium forward performance last year. However, I believe this will actually now have an inverse effect. The premium forwards are now priced lower than the premium mids therefore all theory goes out the window.
      It once again comes down to finding the players who will out-perform their price the most. That could be any combination of defence, midfield and forward. 5-4-1 or 3-4-3 who knows.
      There are more pieces to the puzzle than the previous years optimal formation.
      Playing £4.0m defenders and £4.5m forwards make a huge impact (I call these playing enablers)
      My personal conclusion to this is to identify early the players who are looking to be over performing and the playing enablers. Using the wildcard early (GW3-4) the logical solution.

      1. Hedge
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 12 Years
        4 years, 9 months ago

        The prices dropping on premium forwards certainly helps, but it's not far enough from what I've seen. Kane and Aubameyang at 11m and probably over 200 points may just be viable, but only if others underperform.

        If Sterling gets over 230 again then they would need to get at least 220-226 to match. That's right at the top of Kane's best ever seasons and a pretty tall order with 4 points for a goal and no clean sheet points

  12. Shuko
    • 9 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    23 point difference between "best" and "worst" formation over whole season? What it really proves, is that formation doesn't really matter. Just make sure you have some flexibility, working bench arrangement, and pick the players you think will get you the most points.

    1. Andy_Social
      • 11 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      Yup, that's basically it. Still, I'm following the advice to start off strong at the back and modify as currently punty mid-price assets show themselves in midfield and up top.

    2. Hedge
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      If you look at part 1, you'll see that there is 105 points difference in reality. The reason they are all so close together at the start is because FPL have optimised the price based on last year's performance.

      When you look back, formations perform fairly consistently year-to-year. 523 is always worst, 352, 451 and 442 are pretty much always the top three. 343 is the most inconsistent formation year to year

      1. BEARZINHO
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 5 Years
        4 years, 9 months ago

        I think fixtures have to be considered here too.... those looking at 5-3-2 are not suggesting to stick with this all season or even past first 6-8 games... but a number of premium teams have great fixtures so a stacked def to start can work - then move cash to mids / attk as season progresses

    3. A Fat Spanish Waiter
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 9 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      As Hedge says below, part one of his article is looking backward, part two is more forward looking.

  13. circusmonkey
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 13 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    I have Aguero instead of Raz, for flexibility to move to another premium forward but am questioning it. This article adds to the case for having Raz. Would change Aguero to Giroud maybe but doesn't inspire me with confidence. What do you think?

    1. Baps hunter
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      Only starting with 5 premium defs is a serious price point problem imo. For example starting with both 8 million Everton assets (and/or let us say Fraser and Wilson) also does give the funds needed to get gems mentioned in the article (after gw2).

      Another thing is whether to choose premium gk or a cheap one. 1.5 million budget difference is a factor that shouldn't be overlooked here.

      1. Hedge
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 12 Years
        4 years, 9 months ago

        On the premium keepers, I've always gone cheap. But the extra 1.5m really can't be spent better elsewhere on the pitch IMO after doing this research. Even when Fabianski exploded at 4.5 and nearly matched the big boys it still netted you more points to upgrade him than elsewhere.

        1. M0ngoose
          • 4 Years
          4 years, 9 months ago

          For a set and forget team, this would make sense. But it seems to me that having 1.5 million extra to play with in the market each week could enable more lucrative moves and net you more points in the long run.

        2. Markus
          • 14 Years
          4 years, 9 months ago

          This is same with me, I've always gone cheap but having run the numbers, I think the 1.5m (in ederson) is a good investment on the basis that it doesn't displace other better value city assets (which I don't think it does). Out of interest, what is the difference in max team scores for final upgrades eg from 98-98.5-99-99.5-100 in your model. I'd always approximated 10 points to be gained per 0.5m as what i'm looking but would be interested to know what the figures actually say (for last season and this)?

          1. Markus
            • 14 Years
            4 years, 9 months ago

            This is really helpful stuff btw, appreciate your work

            1. Hedge
              • Fantasy Football Scout Member
              • 12 Years
              4 years, 9 months ago

              No problem. I'd have to go back and look at the numbers, but that's a useful thing to know, I agree, so will dig out that data

          2. Hedge
            • Fantasy Football Scout Member
            • 12 Years
            4 years, 9 months ago

            Ok, so, here's the last few upgrades on the retrospectives with points per million (pp£m) for the upgrade:

            *2018/19 3-5-2*
            Mili -> Sterling (15.1 pp£m)
            Etheridge -> Ederson (15.0 pp£m)
            Wilson -> Aubameyang (7.5 pp£m)

            *2017/18 3-5-2*
            Davies -> Alonson (14.7 pp£m)
            Mili -> KDB (13.0 pp£m)
            Mahrez -> Eriksen (4.0 pp£m)

            *2016/17 4-5-1*
            Son -> Sanchez (20 pp£m)
            Capoue -> Son (17.2 pp£m)
            Son -> Sigurdsson (14.0 pp£m)

            (Slightly odd hokey cokey with Son on the last one!)

            So looks like anything from 2-7 points per 0.5m for the last upgrades depending on the season

            1. Markus
              • 14 Years
              4 years, 9 months ago

              Ah amazing, that's so helpful. yeah as I thought it's actually quite small margins isn't it (even smaller than my estimates). So that would suggest you should always jump at an 8 point uplift for 0.5m, hence premium Gk / digne > Coleman etc - a cheap value option will almost always emerge to make those sorts of upgrades possible

              1. Hedge
                • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                • 12 Years
                4 years, 9 months ago

                Yep, well summarised.

                The caveat is that ever season is different, but as a rule looking for 8 points per 0.5m upgrade is a solid benchmark

                1. Markus
                  • 14 Years
                  4 years, 9 months ago

                  Actually thinking about it again it's probably very unlikely that anyone manages to get towards both got the absolute optimal team and catch all the early price rises so it's probably closer to the 4th or 5th upgrades that most of us will be optimising our team with... So probably 20pp£m is more reasonable assumption - would be interested if you had the earlier 2 upgrades for those seasons as think that probably sheds light on a more realistic ppm upgrade figure to be aiming at...

                  1. Hedge
                    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                    • 12 Years
                    4 years, 9 months ago

                    Its a good point that the last ones are presuming a perfectly optimal team, which doesn't happen practically.

                    Previous two in 18/19 were 10.1 and 11.8
                    In 17/18 they were 7.5 and 8.0
                    In 16/17 they were 10.7 and 11.5

                    I think 10 is a good benchmark. If 0.5m upgrade gives you 10 its very likely to be worth it.

                    1. Markus
                      • 14 Years
                      4 years, 9 months ago

                      Thanks for pulling out the figures 🙂

          3. Baps hunter
            • Fantasy Football Scout Member
            • 6 Years
            4 years, 9 months ago

            Supposing Heaton leaves Burnley, we have Pope for 4.5. If we consider their last year drop in form to be mainly because of Europe, he does become an option. He did overperform his statistics, but part of it was also skill, not only luck. Yet I expect that the point difference will be about 30 pts between Ederson and Pope this season.

    2. Hedge
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      It's fairly easy to move between a premium mid and a premium forward so it wouldn't worry me too much if a forwarded exploded in a big way.

      Giroud could be an option, depends on who is first choice or if there even is a first choice.

      Am currently on Vardy, but have had iterations with Wilson and even just King and Jota

  14. The MadJW
    • 4 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    Is Patricio being overlooked?

  15. Sandy Ravage
    • 8 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    Best penalty savers?
    A - Pickford
    B - Kepa
    C - Leno
    D - Fabianski

    1. The MadJW
      • 4 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      Patricio saved 3 in the shootout v City

  16. BEARZINHO
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 5 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    I know Salah was top scorer 2 seasons running... however, a look at his returns showed that he blanked 17 times, scored more than a goal in only 3 matches and typically gets a goal or an assist.

    Pool kept 20 cs last season. Having 3 pool def all season means 18 per cs plus attk returns plus bps...

    Vs salah hauls which are rare.

    Personally other than FOMO i cant see why i should have salah over 3 pool def

    Can someone convince me otherwise?

    1. circusmonkey
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 13 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      No, go with it I suppose. Who will you captain?

    2. Hedge
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      The reason I'm with Salah is because:

      a) he outperformed all other premium attackers on price per million last year
      b) I think he underperformed last year and will score higher this year
      c) he's 0.5 cheaper this year
      d) I think other premium defenders like Laporte will get close enough to the Liverpool three to mean it's not worth sacrificing Salah for a third one

      1. All de Gea no iDier
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 5 Years
        4 years, 9 months ago

        Agreed. I don't think the gap between Laporte / Azpil .v. VVD / Robbo / TAA will be as great as Salah .v. the rest

      2. Navispar
        • 7 Years
        4 years, 9 months ago

        However, Salah got less points than the year previous and Mane and Sterling both improved their scores.
        Food for thought?

  17. slynch16
    • 11 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    Great article following on from previous one!

    1. Hedge
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      Thanks

  18. All de Gea no iDier
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 5 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    As the adverts say: Past performance is no guarantee of future returns. And the relatively new issues of increased rotation and wing backs means that looking back too far isn't helpful. Also, each season throws up new, cheap prospects and this season we seem to have a mouth watering choice of potentially explosive £6.5m midfielders plus 2 or 3 similarly priced forwards.

    I'm going 4-4-2 to start with and will consider 4-5-1 if the likes of Gross, Tielemans, Perez and Brooks outperform King and Jota.

  19. PEP XI
    • 4 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    Please help me chose

    a) King and Fraser
    b) Wilson and Brooks

    I have Adam smith in defense because of the favorable fixtures for Bournemouth in the start. There's just no other 4.5m option in defense.

    Thanks in advance

    1. Navispar
      • 7 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      C.

  20. Navispar
    • 7 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    Seems a good solid safe way to start and then wc a few weeks in once the value reveals itself.

  21. skindogg
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 13 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    Really looking forward to the rotating pairs article. All the best.

    1. Hedge
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      Cheers, have started gathering the data on rotating pairs

      1. diesel001
        • 7 Years
        4 years, 9 months ago

        If you are looking at 'Rotation Pairs' from last season - I went through with a rotation pair of CPL / NEW (AWB / Lascelles).

        Worked very well for me as I could put out at least one of them every GW and avoid a Top 6 side. Some weeks I would play both.

  22. TheHon_Galahad
    • 4 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    Given me doubts, Sterling and Haller or KDB and Vardy?

    1. Hedge
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      I'm on the latter currently

  23. Jellis
    • 4 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    So are we saying start with a 5-4-1 or 5-3-2?

    GK
    Ryan(Button) just hoping for lots of save points.

    Def
    TAA, VVD, Laporte, Zinchenko, Digne

    Mid
    Salah, Sterling, Brooks, Tielemans (Dendoncker)

    Fwd
    Vardy(Wickham, Greenwood)

    1. Baps hunter
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      GK has to be either Pope (depends on Heaton) or Ederson imo. Ederson had 4.4 ppm and Ryan only 3.1. The latter number simply is (imo) not good enough as discussed above.

  24. Adambailey7
    • 8 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    This has definitely made me change my approach from 3-5-2. Please RMT:

    Ederson

    Laporte, VVD, TAA, Digne, AWB

    Sterling, Salah, zaha, brooks

    Giroud

    Bench: button, dendonker, Greenwood, nketieh.

    Thinking of downgrading ederson to pope. And swap digne for coalman and can improve brooks and my 4.5m midfielder so can rotate between 4-5-1 and 5-4-1. Any advice would be appreciated

    1. Hedge
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      Looks good to me. Man U defence is a wait-and-see for me.

      I'd leave Ederson as is.

      Only problem with one up top is that, unless someone like Greenwood nails down a place, you're one surprise benching/injury away from playing 10 men

  25. etown
    • 12 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    Good evening everyone,
    First draft looking for any feedback.

    Ryan

    VVD. Digne. AWB.

    Fraser. Siggy. Gross. Salah.

    Wilson. Aguero. Deulofeu.

    Button, Dendoncker, Simpson, Kelley.

    Liking Gross as a differential especially with fixtures.

    Not sure that I need both Fraser and Wilson but great fixtures.

    Going back and forth with Aguero.

    Bench is poor I know.

    Nothing in bank.

  26. Scotdownunder
    • 7 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    Thoughts appreciated on midfield and forward line. Either 5 in mid and 1 up top or 4 & 2

    A. KDB, Salah, Sterling, Ndombele, Zaha with King up top

    B. KDB, Salah, Bilva, Perez
    Vardy and Wilson

    Defence is TAA, VVD, Zinchenco, Digne

    Bench is dross

    1. Adambailey7
      • 8 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      I like A and I really like ndombele as a player but I think he will primarily be a holding player for spurs. Is there a more attack minded player you could get? Also is zinchenko guaranteed to start? I think he could be used in a rotation system and if you have no one on your bench to come in then you may have only 10 players some weeks

    2. Daaf
      • 8 Years
      4 years, 9 months ago

      If you have faith in Vardy go Tielemans. Some cesc/Costa vibes going on there. Maybe siggy instead of bsilva? I also like A but tombele I don't get.

  27. frjk69
    • 7 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    Thoughts - A or B?
    (A) Ederson, Felipe Anderson, Wilson
    (B) Fabianski, De Bruyne, King
    Think A is more balanced (and a cheeky alt pick for Felipe Anderson), but De Bruyne could kill it this season...
    Cheers!

  28. Thug
    • 11 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    great article

  29. Yellowbee
    • 4 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    This is so great! Thank you for your work!

  30. Kristobal
    • 12 Years
    4 years, 9 months ago

    A) Patrick van Aanholt

    B) Aaron Wan-Bissaka