Opinion
12 August 2017 4257 comments
Mark Mark
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A classic knee jerk in the making, Mohamed Salah owners were already fidgeting by half-time at Vicarage Road.

Fresh from four goals in pre-season, he had endured an inauspicious start to life back in the Premier League. A toe-poked skyward effort when through on goal, packaged up with several over miscues and errant first touches totalled a miserable first 45 minutes for Salah.

In contrast, Sadio Mane had sparkled and smartly converted Emre Can’s flick to peg back a plucky first half Watford showing.

Shifted to the left flank by Salah’s arrival, it looked as though Mane had adjusted to already demonstrate that he was back as the go-to guy among the opulence in Liverpool’s attack.

But things were to turn dramatically.

Just through sheer pace and endeavour, Salah first won a penalty via Heurelho Gomes’ clumsy telescopic arms and then sprinted to convert Roberto Firmino’s chipped effort from two yards out.

He ended on 11 points and was quickly installed as the top transfer target from those in action on the day.

He tallied five shots, all in the penalty area and eight touches in the box – more than any other midfielder in Gameweek 1 so far. Just as we expected, the statistics are Salah’s friend and will likely reinforce his case throughout the season.

Mane, who picked up a booking, was left trailing and, on today’s evidence, will clearly have his work cut out to justify his billing as the most expensive option in Jurgen Klopp’s armoury.

Owned by 23.5% to Salah’s 23.3%, that narrow gap is closing as Philippe Coutinho owners bail out, turning to the Egyptian as their replacement.

It is, of course, early days and it’s back at Anfield where Mane has previously been so potent.

Nine of his 13 goals arrived on Merseyside last season and he will have Crystal Palace in his sights for Gameweek 2.

Firmino also deserves our recognition. With Klopp relegating James Milner to his bench, the Brazilian was again on penalty duties and expertly converted following Salah’s tumble.

With the assist to follow, Firmino waltzed his way to the maximum bonus points, already benefiting from his new classification as a forward.

If Milner is to remain out of favour – presumably now discounted as a left-back – then Firmino will surely prosper.

Liverpool won eight penalties last season, with all but one converted by Milner. Firmino scored 11 goals regardless.

We have no reason to expect that Liverpool’s penalty count will regress. Indeed, with Salah adding his pace to Mane’s bursts, there’s every chance it will be maintained or even increased.

The conclusion is that Firmino’s stock is on the rise and that suddenly, Mane is in danger of slipping further down our Liverpool attack pecking order.

Mark Mark created the beast. He's now looking to tame it.

4,257 Comments Login to Post a Comment
  1. Rainer
    • 10 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    Bobby is happy!

    Foooook Coutinho!

    1. F4L
      • 11 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Fooook da Coutinhos

    2. Davido989
      • 16 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      He'll do the same thing if the biggest come calling.

      1. Hy liverpool
        • 12 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        Yep
        There's no Gerrard or Agger anymore

        1. Licky
          • 14 Years
          9 years, 1 month ago

          Lucas was the real MVP for making people stay.

      2. Firminooooo
        • 10 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        Stop it. I love Liverpool and will never leave.

    3. Fuchs Mane Kante
      • 9 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Bobby will do nuttin.

  2. Fudge
    • 15 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    Suttner or Lowe -> Hegazi?

  3. waldofeen
    • 12 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    What to do with this?
    Foster(Elliot)
    Moreno Daniels Cedric(Mee hunemeier)
    Willian KDB Mane Puncheon(Carroll)
    Kane Lukaku Firmino

    Puncheon had to go I think. Any suggestions?

    1. dunas_dog
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 11 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Keep eye on Atsu tomorrow

      1. waldofeen
        • 12 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        My thoughts exactly could be my only way out. Could get Jack Cork and rotate with Carroll.

        1. Hairy Potter
          • 11 Years
          9 years, 1 month ago

          I'm tentatively thinking of downgrading Walters to Cork in order to free up 1.0. Would then rotate with Carroll as my 4th mid. Not in a rush to use my FT this week though.

  4. F4L
    • 11 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    Tell you what, Moreno has some left peg on he doesn't he

    1. Doosra - ☭BowenOfRice☭
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 16 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      We all said that, two years ago. 😉

    1. Team Cruel
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 11 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      No.

      Casual.

      1. Pariße
        • 11 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        Fair, I'm lucky enough to not have a player sent off in 2 seasons, easy to overlook. I think the last RC for me was Giroud (C) against QPR 🙂

    2. Rainer
      • 10 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Poor Mike Cihon 😆

      1. Pariße
        • 11 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        haha what a team...benched all the right players too 😆

  5. Big_Andy_GAWA
    • 15 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    Good People,

    Alonso --> ?

    Thinking doubling up on Soton defence. Already have Bertrand. Thoughts...?

    1. Aston-villain
      • 10 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      I have considered this, didnt do it cos I think Alonso will come through especially after seeing some.of his chances and shots.

    2. BALOOO
      • 9 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Yoshida should scored like 3 goals today, i would get him if doubling on Soton.

    3. dunas_dog
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 11 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      If you have no City Walker, or Kolasinac for Arsenal. If intent on double Southampton Stephens

    4. Patty
      • 12 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      I wouldn't do it, Alonso had a free kick on target today

    5. ignis88
      • 9 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Wondering that myself. Tempted by walker atm

    6. Rash
      • 9 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Keep

    7. Goat
      • 9 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      I've already the double. But why get alonso if you're gonna get rid after 1 game?

      1. ignis88
        • 9 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        The red card for Cahill is gonna impact them bad imo, was always unsure of alonso and walker will allow the 0.5 i need for potentially signing hegazi next week

    8. ignis88
      • 9 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Wondering myself. Tempted by walker atm

  6. RichRover
    • 14 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    Was Gabbiadini useless today? Should I sell, or keep with those juicy fixtures?

    1. F4L
      • 11 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      keep my man; potential is there

      1. RichRover
        • 14 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        Cheers, Ful

    2. Team Cruel
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 11 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      He hit both the corner flags so I'd say he was pretty accurate.

    3. Turbolag
      • 10 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      He was useless, but he was getting tons of chances. Surely he won't always be as bad as he was today.

    4. Business Cat
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 12 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Sell for Mounie...he was completely abject.

      Can't imagine Austin won't be getting starts soon.

      1. Turbolag
        • 10 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        Austin wasn't much better today.

  7. FPL ZB
    • Has Moderation Rights
    • 9 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    Apparently Salah is Liverpool's record signing.. bloke on MOTD has already mentioned it four times

    1. Davido989
      • 16 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Funny thing is, he's actually not. Iirc, Roma and Pool declared the deal at £34m. That's the same as Mane. And less than Carroll.

      1. Seb Wassell
        • 13 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        That's without the add-ons.

  8. Badger Badger Mushroom Mush…
    • 10 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    Never seen Moreno and Canel Alvarez in the same room....

    1. Badger Badger Mushroom Mush…
      • 10 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Canelo*

    2. Big_Andy_GAWA
      • 15 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Moreno looks like a young Steven Gerrard!

  9. Francescoli
    • 12 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    I didn't play the price rise game last year and had terrible team value for the second half of the season. Ended with my worst OR and lost all my mini leagues. Learnt my lesson.

    Mee + Zaha --> Hegazi + Xhaka (-4) ✅

    1. F4L
      • 11 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      blimey, best of luck; wouldn't say I would have done that

    2. Badger Badger Mushroom Mush…
      • 10 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      They are mental transfers. Especially for -4

      1. Francescoli
        • 12 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        you need to out crazy the crazies, as they say

    3. Team Cruel
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 11 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      So you're compensating by overdoing it the other way? Sound logic.

    4. Tomerick
      • 12 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Your eyes going to need knee surgery if you keep jerking them so badly.

      1. Tomerick
        • 12 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        *you're

        1. Francescoli
          • 12 Years
          9 years, 1 month ago

          you were right the first time buddy

    5. Doosra - ☭BowenOfRice☭
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 16 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Similar. 🙂

      Phillips and Long out, in my case.

    6. Prøfeßör …
      • 10 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      I'm sorry, but that's mental. Especially the Zaha to Xhaka one.

    7. Pep says
      • 11 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      After one game. Mee has potential clean sheets in every even numbered gameweek.

      Xhaka may not as influential when Sanchez comes back. Stoke away is a tough too, it's usually pretty physical. Zaha against a weak pool defence on the other hand..

  10. @fpl_phenom
    • 11 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    was xhaka that good?

    1. F4L
      • 11 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      he'll get a steady flow of points this season

    2. Turbolag
      • 10 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      He certainly wasn't last year.

    3. Rainer
      • 10 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      For £5.5m, yes.

    4. Podge
      • 15 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      He was ok

    5. @fpl_phenom
      • 11 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      just watched MOTD ... he was ok, but not rushing him in....

    6. Alan_T
      • 9 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Gave the ball away for a Vardy goal

  11. Wilshere Knowledge
    • 13 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    Squawka Football‏Verified account @Squawka 2m2 minutes ago
    More
    Wins after 100 games as Liverpool manager:

    Brendan Rodgers (53)
    Jürgen Klopp (50)

    Harder than it looks.

    😉

    1. Harper_
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 11 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Suarez.

    2. Optimus.
      • 15 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Easier when you have Suarez

    3. Rainer
      • 10 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Suarez, a fit Sturridge and Stevie G.

      Moyes would have got 50 with them.

  12. tafrère
    • 10 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    A lot of love for Hegazi but do we assume he's nailed even when McAuley comes back ?

    1. Business Cat
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 12 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      I'm not going there 🙂

      1. tafrère
        • 10 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        Not planning on getting him myself, already have Foster so I'm more tempted by Newcastle 4.5 defs.

    2. Hairy Potter
      • 11 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Pulis always finds a way to get as many centre backs as possible into his team.

      1. tafrère
        • 10 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        Mhm truedat.

    3. Viper
      • 16 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      I think McAuleys days of starting week in & week out are gone so I reckon Hegazi keeps his place

    4. Yankee Toffee
      • 11 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      McAuley is 37 years old if that makes a difference. Not much left in him

  13. F4L
    • 11 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    Zonal marking, I just don't get it?

    1. Seb Wassell
      • 13 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      It actually makes more sense than man marking. But when a goal is scored against zonal the system is blamed by pundits, when a goal is scored against man marking it is the man himself blamed. Inconsistent and a myth.

      Most teams defend with a bit of both.

  14. Viper
    • 16 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    I have an embarrassing confession and unfortunately shows my ignorance towards the teams that came up..

    I would have been far more likely to put Mounie in if I knew he was a record signing from France. I thought he was just a big dog of striker that has been there years 😆

    1. F4L
      • 11 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      having watched Huds all last season, I dismissed immediately

    2. bojack
      • 10 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      😆

    3. Francescoli
      • 12 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      He wasn't prolific in France

      1. Fantasy Football Friend!
        • 13 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        14 goals for a Montpellier side that finished 4 points above the drop.

        If he scored 14 goals this season, he'll go down in FPL folklore.

        1. Francescoli
          • 12 Years
          9 years, 1 month ago

          14 goals in the French league. You think he can replicate those numbers in the EPL? Hmmmm don't think so

    4. Podge
      • 15 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      1 goal less than mbappe 😯

      1. Turbolag
        • 10 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        * In nearly twice as many minutes

    5. Optimus.
      • 15 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      I knew nothing of him but his name put me off

      1. Francescoli
        • 12 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        🙂

    6. Seb Wassell
      • 13 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Only 1 match and that Palace defence were shocking.

  15. Team Cruel
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 11 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    Why is Zanka only picked by .4%?

  16. Sterling is £11Mill..…
    • 9 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    Have you seen Marco Silvas career stats:
    G W D L GF GA GD Win %
    Estoril (27 September 2011-21 May 2014) 116 54 31 31 167 114 +53 46.55
    Sporting (21 May 2014-4 June 2015) 53 31 15 7 105 54 +51 58.49
    Olympiacos (8 July 2015-23 June 2016) 48 38 3 7 119 39 +80 79.17
    Hull City (5 January 2017-25 May 2017) 22 8 3 11 25 43 −18 36.36
    Watford (27 May 2017-Present) 1 0 1 0 3 3 +0 0.00

    Total: 240 131 53 56 419 253 +166 54.58
    Look at that goal difference 😀

    1. Sterling is £11Mill..…
      • 9 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      :/ formatting fail. Goal difference of +166

    2. F4L
      • 11 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      well I have now 😉

  17. Four Point Hit
    • 11 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    Looking at fplstatistics out of curiosity, who are these people who own Eduardo, Ings, Ospina, etc?

    1. dark91
      • 10 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Could be because of the auto fill/select

    2. Tomerick
      • 12 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Their mums.

      1. Four Point Hit
        • 11 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        0.2% of 4 million is 8000. I wish I had that many mums, think of all the cooked meals.

  18. Dele
    • 9 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    Can someone sum up to me what all the hype around Xhaka is about?

    1. Yankee Toffee
      • 11 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Rubbish.

    2. Yav
      • 9 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Some people think that he will get 2 assists per game from now on.

    3. FDMS All Starz
      • 10 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Desperation

    4. Fantasy Football Friend!
      • 13 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      He seems exciting to have. On corners, likes a long shot, red card waiting to happen. The entertainment value is there at least.

    5. Darklord_bg
      • 9 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Stealing corners from Ozil...and chasing price rise.

  19. Drip Doctor
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 16 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    Look at all this Xhaka talk. I told you all he is the best CM in the league.

    1. Pariße
      • 11 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Great player, not a very good fpl prospect though imo.

    2. Yav
      • 9 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      He isn't.

      1. Pariße
        • 11 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        yet 😛

        1. Yav
          • 9 Years
          9 years, 1 month ago

          Or forever more.

    3. Hy liverpool
      • 12 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Dembele*

      1. Drip Doctor
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 16 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        Huge fan, but he doesn't do enough with the ability he has.

    4. FDMS All Starz
      • 10 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Kante is a great CM too...pants in terms of fpl

    5. ignis88
      • 9 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Lol he's not even a cm

      1. Seb Wassell
        • 13 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        ?

  20. Pariße
    • 11 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    I just realized you can't see points accreditation for specific criteria under player information anymore.

    It used to say this under 'i' (for example):
    67 minutes: 2pts
    assist: 3pts
    yellow card: -1pt
    ...

    1. TorresMagic™
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • Has Moderation Rights
      • 17 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Click the player score.

      1. Pariße
        • 11 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        Ah, there we go, thanks 🙂

  21. GS456
    • 10 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    Not sure why anyone's making transfers. Plenty of time to build up that value.

    I'll be saving this week.

    1. bojack
      • 10 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      I favour saving the 2 FTs for GW3 unless there's an injury.

      1. GS456
        • 10 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        Yeah I'll be doing this. 3 transfers with a hit as well worked well last year for me.

  22. Yankee Toffee
    • 11 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    Spuds should destroy Chelski next week. Reckon I might need another attacker there....thoughts?

    I cant afford Erik or Alli. Have Kane and Davies.

    Son? Sissoko?

    1. GS456
      • 10 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Clearly not sissoko. Monitor trippier if fit

      1. Yankee Toffee
        • 11 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        Sissoko is at least nailed on

    2. F4L
      • 11 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Son if fit and declared nailed

      1. Yankee Toffee
        • 11 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        See what happens tmrw as he has an arm injury atm

    3. FISKIMUS
      • 9 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      I know it's unlikely they'll be too poor, but wouldn't you like to see Totts play tomorrow first before you get too excited?

      1. Yankee Toffee
        • 11 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        Ofc. Just a straw poll.

  23. Dr Dream
    • 13 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    Furthest forward players for the away team.... http://members.fantasyfootballscout.co.uk/matches/918901/... and both had more touches in the box than the striker...

  24. GS456
    • 10 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    What team did mark end up with in the end?

  25. ⚽️ Dingo ⚽️
    • 10 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    Feeling annoyed this morning waking up and seeing Mounie scored a brace. I had him in my team for ages but then changed to Gabbiadini as I thought he was safer. Huddesfield have some really nice fixtures and I feel I might make the early transfer plunge and bring him in.

    Thoughts?

    1. GS456
      • 10 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      He might blank next week and Gabbi might score. 1 game week is nothing to go off.

    2. Big_Andy_GAWA
      • 15 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Rabbi burned me last season in the last few weeks. I ain't going there again. Go with your gut, buddy...

      1. Big_Andy_GAWA
        • 15 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        Gabbi**

      2. Darklord_bg
        • 9 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        This...more enjoyable to play this was as well...

    3. Podge
      • 15 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      He is worth having

    4. Pariße
      • 11 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Maybe after the next gameweek, but even that's a bit early.

    5. Badger Badger Mushroom Mush…
      • 10 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      I'd stick with Gabby if I had him.

      But then again I would never have him because Gabby is the devil.

  26. Big_Andy_GAWA
    • 15 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    Soton defender of choice, folks? Already own Bertrand. Or should I get Phil Jones? Not as nailed, though.

    1. GS456
      • 10 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Stephens I chose and he swept a bonus today. Seems to be nailed hearing jonty talk about Southampton fans saying his importance to the way the team plays.

      1. Big_Andy_GAWA
        • 15 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        Yeah, he did well for me last season. Think Cedric under threat to a certain degree by another right-sided defender...

      2. Badger Badger Mushroom Mush…
        • 10 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        He didn't get any BPS

    2. Hy liverpool
      • 12 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Stephens probably ...
      I hate to do transfers after gw1

      1. Big_Andy_GAWA
        • 15 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        Alonso was always a one week punt. Just wish he's perforned...!!

  27. Majestic Chanka
    • 9 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    Am I smoking something or did I see xG as a match stat on MOTD?

    1. Team Cruel
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 11 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      xG has been the thing for a while now. MOTD, FFS etc. are late to the party.

      1. Majestic Chanka
        • 9 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        Just didn't expect to see it there, would love to see professor shearer trying explain the math!

    2. Podge
      • 15 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Expected goals yeh

  28. Peter O'Hanraha-hanrah…
    • 9 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    Any Fab others out there got their minds on any potential alternatives atm? Only Ramsey for me...

    1. Big_Andy_GAWA
      • 15 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Upgrade to Silva @ 8 mill...?

      1. Peter O'Hanraha-hanrah…
        • 9 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        Silva looked promising today, but already have KDB and would have to take a hit to free up funds which I'm not a fan of this early

    2. F4L
      • 11 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      might plum for Ritchie

      1. Peter O'Hanraha-hanrah…
        • 9 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        I'll see how he peforms tomorrow

  29. Aubaaaaa
    • 9 Years
    9 years, 1 month ago

    Will Hegazi starts when Mcauley returns?

    1. F4L
      • 11 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      £4.6 MILLION. DOLLAR. QUESTION.

    2. FISKIMUS
      • 9 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Isn't Mc cauley getting on a bit? And Hegazi is 6 foot 5 in a team where set pieces are key, i can see him getting nailed on pretty tight.... shame i had him on bench today.... 65 with Rashford and Valencia to go tho 😉

    3. Doosra - ☭BowenOfRice☭
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 16 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Should do. Great start. McOldey is 38, which is old, even for goalkeepers.

      1. Big_Andy_GAWA
        • 15 Years
        9 years, 1 month ago

        Big Gareth is 37, Doos. Will be 38 at the end of the year 🙂

    4. Darklord_bg
      • 9 Years
      9 years, 1 month ago

      Unfortunately I think they will share starts. Which renders them both unusable fantasy players.