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  1. adstomko
    • 10 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    Isak (C) for whole season anyone?…..

    1. Bluetiger1
      • 4 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      nope

    2. The Knights Template
      • 12 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      This is a sensible site, for sensible people, there’s nothing for you here!

    3. sirmorbach
      • 10 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Why?

    4. 3 A
      • 10 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Lets go!

  2. FPL Sanky
    • 2 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    Any specific reason why everyone is going Johnson over Maddison?

    1. IN SANE IN DE BRUYNE
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      1m difference, obviously

      1. FPL Sanky
        • 2 Years
        2 years, 13 days ago

        What will you do with 1m if Johnson doesn't even start? I would rather spend 1m more as I know Maddison will start each game. Plus with the new bonus point system, he should be better placed as he does win a lot of fouls

        1. Sheffield Wednesday
          • 6 Years
          2 years, 13 days ago

          In terms of points per match last season, Maddison wasn't even in the top 10 of midfielders costing up to £7.5m. So if you have that much to spend most prefer to look elsewhere.

          1. FPL Sanky
            • 2 Years
            2 years, 13 days ago

            Yeah agree he wasn't good post his injury. But I think he will come back with a point to prove especially considering he wasn't in the euros squad as well. I think I will go with him at the start at least.

  3. 1912 F.A Cup Winners
    • 9 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    Good evening all!!

    Anyone considering a power 5 in midnight with 5x 4.5 defenders to start…

    Sels
    Martinez Burn Mykolenco
    Salah Saka Palmer Foden Gordon
    Isak Woods
    Subs 4.0 Anderson Robinson 4.5

    Looks pretty good I think!!

    1. 1912 F.A Cup Winners
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      *midfield

    2. FPL Sanky
      • 2 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      I have the same defense as you mate.... although I am going with a Haaland draft and you are going with a Salah draft

      1. 1912 F.A Cup Winners
        • 9 Years
        2 years, 13 days ago

        Great minds mate!! Hehe, I think all 5 of those are decent picks and you get good rotation between them too!! Haaland is still in consideration, I do like the look of the front 7 tho

        1. FPL Sanky
          • 2 Years
          2 years, 13 days ago

          True that. I think I will be going with this defense only. Like your front 7 as well. Good luck.

          1. 1912 F.A Cup Winners
            • 9 Years
            2 years, 13 days ago

            Yeah me too mate I think I will
            Too cheers mate best wishes to you too

    3. Tony Moon
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 17 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Would prefer Konsa to Robinson, but a good team.

      1. 1912 F.A Cup Winners
        • 9 Years
        2 years, 13 days ago

        Cheers mate!! Konsa is a greedy shout actually!! Will go for him!!

  4. KieranKA
    • 5 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    Any recommendations for my draft? I reckon Jota starts the season as Liverpool’s #9 especially if Núñez is suspended for the copa America incident

    Sánchez // 4.0
    Konsa Burn v.d.Ven // Andersen 4.0
    Salah Jota Gordon Eze Nkunku
    Haaland Isak // 4.5

    A: looks good

    B: get Saka (Jota, Eze, 4.5FW, Andersen ➡️ Saka, Pedro, 4.0DF, Winks)

    C: get Gabriel (Andersen, Jota ➡️ Gabriel, Szoboszlai)

    D: get Watkins (Andersen, Jota, Eze, 4.5 FW ➡️ 4.0 DF, Szoboszlai, Winks, Watkins)

    1. Bushwhacker
      • 7 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Jota is unlikely to be a fixture in the Liverpool side, bench player. Back line is obviously very weak with Salah and Haaland.

      1. Bushwhacker
        • 7 Years
        2 years, 13 days ago

        Can’t see the COPA incident carrying over to the Premier League, would be shocked if the organizers get away with blaming the players for doing their job tbh

    2. mrmojorisin8
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 8 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      B or D

  5. sirmorbach
    • 10 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    Eze is one of the very few players that have been in all of my drafts.

    1. Bushwhacker
      • 7 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Good value ; think he's in most templates at this point.

    2. Moderately content penguin
      • 7 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Hasn't made my only one so far - might look at him if it becomes clear he'll stay at Palace but very fair chance he moves and quite late in the window at that.

  6. KAPTAIN KANE SERVES THE PAI…
    • 9 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    Best way to shave 0.5 off this killer draft?

    Sa
    Trent | Gvardiol | Saliba
    Palmer | Saka | Foden | Bruno | MGW
    Watkins | Muniz

    Thinking either Muniz to Joao Pedro or go 2 x 4.0 defs?
    Or perhaps a 6.0 mid over MGW?

    Thanks

    1. Setpiecemad
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 11 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      This will never be your squad next month.

      1. KAPTAIN KANE SERVES THE PAI…
        • 9 Years
        2 years, 13 days ago

        Why not

        1. Setpiecemad
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 11 Years
          2 years, 13 days ago

          Who will be your captain. I see too many risks. Good if you want to be maverick I guess.

          1. KAPTAIN KANE SERVES THE PAI…
            • 9 Years
            2 years, 13 days ago

            Palmer most weeks, sometimes Saka/Foden

          2. KAPTAIN KANE SERVES THE PAI…
            • 9 Years
            2 years, 13 days ago

            Palmer at least 0.5m under priced, especially for a team like Chelsea who play to win penalties

    2. sirmorbach
      • 10 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Bruno to Gordon for me.

      1. KAPTAIN KANE SERVES THE PAI…
        • 9 Years
        2 years, 13 days ago

        Not getting the Gordon love, Bruno to Eze could work though

    3. dunas_dog
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 11 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Difficult to say without seeing bench but MGW to CHO and save 1 m- also presumably you have better goalkeeper on bench as Wolves opening fixtures awful.

      1. KAPTAIN KANE SERVES THE PAI…
        • 9 Years
        2 years, 13 days ago

        Bench is fodder plus 4.5 def.
        Picked Sa on purpose with hard fixtures, that’s my tactic this season with keepers, save points etc

    4. Boberella
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      I like Muniz as a pick.
      2x 4m defs would be my preference.
      Barco + Bellis/Verstergaard.
      You’re not gonna need them for the first few weeks.

      1. KAPTAIN KANE SERVES THE PAI…
        • 9 Years
        2 years, 13 days ago

        Cheers

    5. Boberella
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      It’s definitely missing Newcastle attack though. Don’t like that. Not sure on Trent either.

      1. KAPTAIN KANE SERVES THE PAI…
        • 9 Years
        2 years, 13 days ago

        Ooh Watkins to Isak works doesn’t it!

      2. KAPTAIN KANE SERVES THE PAI…
        • 9 Years
        2 years, 13 days ago

        I think our perception of Trent is skewed because he was 8.5m last season.
        1.5m drop for a player of his calibre is massive

  7. Boberella
    • 9 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    Best 8.5m set and forget GK combo:

    A) West Ham
    B) Forest (best opening fixtures)
    C) Brentford (worst opening fixtures)

    1. sirmorbach
      • 10 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Forest.

    2. dunas_dog
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 11 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      It’s not clear who will be Forest keeper after they signed Carlos Miguel who is 4.5 m - also means Turner probably leaves. Brentford likely to sign keeper who may replace Valdimarsson as no 2 to Flekken so for now A safest

      1. Boberella
        • 9 Years
        2 years, 13 days ago

        Thanks mate. I did wonder about Miguel.

      2. Andy_Social
        • 13 Years
        2 years, 13 days ago

        Is Flappy #2 at Hammers though? They've brought in Foderingham.

        1. David Parkinson
          • 4 Years
          2 years, 13 days ago

          Yep, Fodders is 3.

    3. KAPTAIN KANE SERVES THE PAI…
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Flekken I would say, not sure if any 4.0s have chances of minutes

    4. Bushwhacker
      • 7 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Leicester have 2 4.0's . . . .

  8. Silva Bilva Tilva Pilva
    • 8 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    Mental block with this one:

    A) Eze + Gordon
    B) Bruno + Gibbs-White

    1. sirmorbach
      • 10 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      A by a mile for me

    2. Silva Bilva Tilva Pilva
      • 8 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Currently my team is:

      Areola
      Robertson Mykolenko Andersen
      Salah Palmer Eze Gordon
      Isak Watkins Havertz

      Fabianski Robinson Harwood Winks

    3. Boberella
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      A

    4. IN SANE IN DE BRUYNE
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      A

  9. sirmorbach
    • 10 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    A) 4.5 keeper, Andersen, Gordon
    B) Pope, Saliba, CHO

    1. IN SANE IN DE BRUYNE
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      B

      1. IN SANE IN DE BRUYNE
        • 9 Years
        2 years, 13 days ago

        Actually meant A

        1. sirmorbach
          • 10 Years
          2 years, 13 days ago

          Cheers mate

    2. Bleh
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      A

  10. Yolo Toure
    • 11 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    This is the best Haaland + Salah + Trent draft I can possibly think of:
    Sanchez/Turner
    TAA/Gabriel/Mykolenko
    Eze/Salah/CHO/Gordon
    Haaland/Isak/Pedro

    Subs: Barco, Faes, Bergvall

    1. sirmorbach
      • 10 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Surprisingly good.

    2. sirmorbach
      • 10 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Isak to Havertz to cover Arsenal, 0.5 to upgrade João Pedro or one of the 4.0s?

      1. Yolo Toure
        • 11 Years
        2 years, 13 days ago

        Isak 50% ownership and such good fixtures is hard to ignore, there's just no way to get an Arsenal attacker into this squad I feel. Really feel like this is the best that can be done.

        1. IN SANE IN DE BRUYNE
          • 9 Years
          2 years, 13 days ago

          Gabriel to 5.0
          Pedro to Wood/Muniz
          Another 0.5 for one of the 4.0 defenders

          This looks better imo

          1. TheBiffas
            • 5 Years
            2 years, 13 days ago

            Agreed

    3. Bleh
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Strong.

    4. Bushwhacker
      • 7 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      It's good. I still think it gets beat.

  11. The Knights Template
    • 12 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    Salah or Mepham?

    1. Bleh
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Mo

    2. Freshy
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 16 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Mep

    3. Moderately content penguin
      • 7 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Bogle of course

  12. Bleh
    • 9 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    How’s it looking?

    Areola
    Gabriel, Burn, Mykolenko
    Salah, Palmer, Foden, Gordon
    Watkins, Isak, Muniz

    (Fabianski, Ait Nouri, Harwood, Bergvall)

    1. The Knights Template
      • 12 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Nearly there.

  13. FISSH
    • 13 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    Who is CHO?

    1. DavvaMC
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 5 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Hudson Odoi

    2. St Pauli Walnuts
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 8 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Colin Hendry Obviously.

  14. Zoostation
    • 11 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    How is it looking?

    Feel like it's coming together, not thrilled to have no Arsenal but making the decision to wait on their fixtures getting better...

    Sanchez (4.0)

    TAA Burn Mykolenko (B Johnson, Faes)

    Salah Foden Palmer Eze (Winks)

    Watkins Isak Muniz

    1. Saint & Reevesy
      • 14 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Is TAA better than Gvaridol +1m ?

      1. Zoostation
        • 11 Years
        2 years, 13 days ago

        Possibly not, but like the fixtures better over first six weeks.

    2. Bushwhacker
      • 7 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      I think that’s close to the non Haaland template. Its good.

  15. DavvaMC
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 5 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    Anyone considering Robertson (Pool)?

    A. Just get Trent
    B. Don't bother with pool defence

    Thanks

    1. Saint & Reevesy
      • 14 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      B at the moment

    2. Zoostation
      • 11 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Gone with A due to fixtures but have and will continue to consider Robertson.

    3. DavvaMC
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 5 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Cheers.

  16. Saint & Reevesy
    • 14 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    Drafts without either Haaland and Salah look so balanced and strong - its just the armband decision becomes harrowing. Not sure i've got the minerals to do it......

    Anyone else thinking of going without both?

    1. lugs
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Yeah me, team is stacked full of captaincy options, I've pretty much made my peace with the fact there will be some weeks where there will be pain, but I think it will even out or swing in my favour over the long run if I'm able to hold my nerve

    2. Bushwhacker
      • 7 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Yup. City, Arsenal, Newcastle all offer decent alt captaincy

    3. KAPTAIN KANE SERVES THE PAI…
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      If you have Palmer it becomes easy.

      Also Saka and Foden are genuine captain options too now

  17. DavvaMC
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 5 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    I see many drafts that have Saliba and not Gabriel, is Gabriel not a guaranteed starter this season?

    1. Andy_Social
      • 13 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Timber is fit and Arteta's acquiring Califiori. There's a lot of quality defenders needing games.

      1. DavvaMC
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 5 Years
        2 years, 13 days ago

        Thanks, so best to go with Saliba then.

  18. One Man
    • 9 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    Allison 4m
    TAA Trippier Anderson Konsa Faes
    Salah Odegaard Nkunku Eze 4.5
    Watkins Isak Mateta

    Set on this, any feedback appreciated.

    1. PEP G
      • 10 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Pretty decent team but you could save a little more on Tripper (6.0M) place. He isn't on great form right? Perhaps, monitor him. Also, you have went for double Liverpool defense (Allison & TAA). My take would be get a cheaper GK and get a Arsenal defender. Arsenal defense are good to invest in.

      8//10 for this No Haaland Team

      Cheers

    2. Bushwhacker
      • 7 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Tripps might get sold. Last chance to get any decent cash for him.

  19. PEP G
    • 10 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    Areola
    Andersen Saliba Burn
    Pascal Groß Saka Palmer Gordon
    Haaland Pedro Isak

    Bench : Cheapest Ones with 4.0M GK's and Defender along with 4.5M Midfielder

    ITB : 0M

    Any concerns besides having no Liverpool players? Appereciate your thoughts.

    Rate my team over 10 please.

    1. lugs
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Gross an interesting shout, but not sure I'd want to double up with him and Pedro but decent effort 8/10

      1. Andy_Social
        • 13 Years
        2 years, 13 days ago

        Gross is supposed to be leaving.

    2. IN SANE IN DE BRUYNE
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Gross is off to Bayern I think
      Pedro is injured, broken rib

  20. D_R_S_PORT_S
    • 9 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    Why nobody is talking about son ? Isn’t he worth for couple of Gws at least ? I think it’s a goalfest in lei vs spurs first game.

    1. lugs
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      I think he is just down the list of priorities for most people, especially those with Haaland as from what I've seen Palmer, Saka, Foden are ahead of him, my team included,

      he has been in and out of my team, the dilemma I have though is whether to have Son and cheap defense, or premium defense with a cheap midfielder in Sons place, I'm on the latter atm but that might change

      1. Andy_Social
        • 13 Years
        2 years, 13 days ago

        I think he's overlooked, especially with the high possibility that Foden and Saka are rested for the first gameweek or two. My main reservation is Spurs' opening fixtures; I'm looking to bring in their assets on a mini-wildcard GW5 when they go on a good run.

        1. Bushwhacker
          • 7 Years
          2 years, 13 days ago

          Can’t see any reason to rest Saka or Foden. Both will play prior the season opener.

    2. Ini
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 16 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      It’s a fair callout. The other players in bis price range (Palmer, Foden, Saka) are being prioritized over him.

    3. Jafalad
      • 16 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      If memory serves, he tailed off somewhat towards the backend of last season and he became rather forgotten about. I guess we need to see what form he is in first.

    4. Bushwhacker
      • 7 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      I think Sons problem is pecking order ; especially if you’ve a Salah or Haaland team. Palmer, Foden, Saka ahead of him.

  21. Jafalad
    • 16 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    Best 4.0 defender?

    Faes looks the best bet at present given LEI had the best defence of the three promoted sides last season.
    Need to avoid highly owned defenders as they are vulnerable to price drops.

    1. DavvaMC
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 5 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Ahhh right, I thought it was the other way around if they are highly owned then they are less likely to drop in price.

      So for my 4M defenders I should choose the lowest owned players?

    2. Andy_Social
      • 13 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      For early fixtures, it's prolly Harwood-Bellis.

      1. DavvaMC
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 5 Years
        2 years, 13 days ago

        I have been on Faes and Barco and for my 4.5M forward, Fraser or Ladapo.

        OK to stick with these?

      2. Jafalad
        • 16 Years
        2 years, 13 days ago

        Too highly owned and more likely to get a price drop

        1. DavvaMC
          • Fantasy Football Scout Member
          • 5 Years
          2 years, 13 days ago

          So I should look for the low owned fodders?

  22. Jafalad
    • 16 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    No Salah or Haarland RMT. Scored 90% on Transfer Hub:

    Sanchez, Turner

    Gvardiol, Burn, Mychenko, Faes, Andersen

    Foden, Saka, Gordon, Eze, Palmer

    Gakpo, Watkins, Isak.

    Question marks with Gakpo and Turner re starts.

    Any improvements?

    1. Ryan
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • Has Moderation Rights
      • 14 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      The keepers and Gakpo aren’t nailed

      1. Jafalad
        • 16 Years
        2 years, 13 days ago

        Indeed. Alternatives?

  23. iFash@FPL
    • 2 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    Who’s Crystal Palace #1 Goal Keeper? Henderson or Johnstone?

    1. Andy_Social
      • 13 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      It's not certain yet. Need to monitor pre-season.
      Same with keepers at Chelsea and Forest.

      1. iFash@FPL
        • 2 Years
        2 years, 13 days ago

        Thanks for your response! We’ll watch out for more info.

        I’m thinking of rotating Flekken with the CRY starting GK.

        1. Moderately content penguin
          • 7 Years
          2 years, 13 days ago

          You may need to wait a while - Henderson won't be available for preseason bar one match possibly. He may cost 0.5 more but I'd take Munoz as comfortably the pick of Palace defence.

          1. iFash@FPL
            • 2 Years
            2 years, 13 days ago

            Why is he not available?

  24. 15men1cup
    • 8 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    Good Morning Captains,

    What do you think?

    Flekken, (Turner)
    Gvardiol, Gabriel, Mychenko (Anderson, Faes)
    Salah, Gordon, Eze, CHO (Winks)
    Haaland, Isak, Muniz

    Or

    Flekken, (Turner)
    Gvardiol, Gabriel, TAA, (Harwood, Faes)
    Salah, Gordon, Eze, Foden, (CHO)
    Watkins, Isak, Muniz

    Not sure........thoughts and help much needed......thanks

    1. iFash@FPL
      • 2 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      It’s a close call: second team just ahead, but missing Haaland could be a worry…

      1. 15men1cup
        • 8 Years
        2 years, 13 days ago

        cheers buddy

    2. GPV
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      I like second better

  25. DavvaMC
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 5 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    What do you think of the below. Bench is poor I realise that. Am I running a risk if I need to swap defenders as my bench is all 4M players.

    A.

    Areola
    Gvardiol / Munoz / Mykolenko
    Salah / Gordon / Foden / Eze / Palmer
    Isak / Havertz

    Fabianski | Barco | Faes | Ladapo

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    B.

    Sanchez
    Gvardiol / Gabriel / Van de Ven
    Salah / Gordon / Foden / Saka / Nkunku
    Isak / Havertz

    Fabianski | Barco | Faes | Fraser

    Thanks

    1. iFash@FPL
      • 2 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      A for me.

    2. GPV
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      A

      And, and yes, bug risk having all 4m on the bench... that hasn't worked out for me in the past.

      1. DavvaMC
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 5 Years
        2 years, 13 days ago

        Who would you downgrade though in order to get a 4.5M player on the bench?

  26. SpaceCadet
    • 12 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    Is the Knight around? I want to post an RMT but his wrath scares me.

  27. MJF
    2 years, 13 days ago

    Eze came in a bit cheaper than I expected.

    1. GPV
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 13 days ago

      Great value on a very attacking and solid team.

  28. GPV
    • 9 Years
    2 years, 13 days ago

    Any thoughts on this please?

    Players with * I'm not convinced.

    Sanchez
    Maatsen Muñoz Burn
    Salah Foden Palmer Eze *CHO
    Isak Havertz

    *Henderson Robinson *Ricardo P *Armstrong

    0.5 ITB

    For now one of CHO or Armstrong will play every week.

    Initially I had Gordon instead of Foden and Gakpo instead of Havertz but it felt wrong having no City or Arsenal cover.

    Any glaring mistakes?

    Cheers

  29. prgmtctchr
    • 11 Years
    2 years, 12 days ago

    Lowest Score Wins leagues are back!

    Pick your team using your entire budget then ‘set it and forget it’, with no transfers, chips, etc. used during the season. Lowest score wins!

    Classic: https://fantasy.premierleague.com/leagues/auto-join/i46foq
    H2H: https://fantasy.premierleague.com/leagues/auto-join/cynn5t

    The rules are simple but bear repeating in relative depth:
    1. Use your entire budget to pick your team. You must have 0 left to spend when the season begins.
    2. Do not make any transfers once the season begins.
    3. Do not use any chips during the season.
    4. At the end of the season, the team at the bottom of the table (having correctly followed all rules) wins.