Fantasy5
17 November 2021 261 comments
FPL Marc FPL Marc
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Sponsored by Fantasy5


To embrace the chaotic congestion of the winter Premier League calendar, we’ve gathered a crack squad of Fantasy Football Scout staff and Pro Pundits to battle it out via the medium of a Fantasy5 mini-league to determine who truly has the best eye for a Fantasy player.

You can check the league out here.

From Gameweek 12 to Gameweek 20, the ten managers will be given five specific fixtures and asked to pick a player from each who they believe will exceed their assigned ‘points target’. The more that do so, the better.

The process is free and super easy but selecting the right picks is where the real challenge comes in. There are bragging rights and a small prize up for grabs within the team but, if any of them (or indeed you) can pick five successful outperformers in one week, the reward is somewhat larger – with £10,000 on the table!

We’ll keep you updated with regular game week check-ins but, if you fancy putting them all to shame, you can get involved yourself here at Fantasy5. You can even set up your own mini-league and compete with colleagues, friends and family.

£100 prize every month in Scout's Fantasy5 mini-league

HOW DOES FANTASY5 WORK?

Fantasy5 is easy to play as it follows the exact same scoring system as FPL, just without the bonus points.

It’s as simple as this: pick a player from each of the five nominated matches and, if they all exceed their ‘points target’ (a par score set by Fantasy5 for each asset), you’ll be in the money.

The competition is limited to one entry per person per round and selections must be submitted before kick-off of the first eligible match.

If two or more entrants correctly select five players who all score more than their points target, then the prize pot is split among all winners.

For a full list of the terms and conditions, click here.

THE COMPETITORS

Az – The current leader of the Mods and Cons mini-league and armed with an 817th-placed Fantasy Premier League (FPL) finish from the 2017/18 season, Az is the co-host of the FPL BlackBox podcast with Mark Sutherns.

elFozzie – Has forgotten more about Fantasy Football than most managers learn in a lifetime. The Scout’s Commercial Director finished 5,048th in last season’s FPL.

FPL_ElStatto – Founder and owner of the Jumpers for Goalposts site, El Statto joined the Scout Network in August 2020.

FPL Marc – As the new member of Scout’s team, Newcastle fan Marc’s hazing includes being taught weekly FPL lessons and being sent to the shop to get a ‘long wait’ and ‘tartan paint’.

FPL Nymfria – A bronze winner at the 2020 Football Content Awards, Nym has amassed a large Twitter following because of her weekly videos and FPL WildCats podcast.

Geoff – Now the Operations Manager, this Canadian progressed through the youth ranks of the Scout, starting as a site regular, then moderator. His 2016/17 season was outstanding, finishing in the dizzying heights of 49th place worldwide. Never once finishing outside of the top 100k in his 11 campaigns as an FPL manager, Geoff is confident of humbling his colleagues in Fantasy5.

Neale – Long-time team news compiler and now the Editor of Fantasy Football Scout. This veteran has been playing FPL since before records began in 2006/07, clocking up ten finishes in the top 40k and some others he’d prefer us not to mention.

Sam (FPL Family) – Known as one half of the FPL Family duo, Sam is the Scout’s Marketing and Social Media Manager and a regular on the podcast and video scene.

Ted Talks FPL – A Pro Pundit who finished 63rd just three seasons ago, Ted’s much-lauded graphics are a popular part of the FPL Twitterverse. He also hosts the ‘Ted Talks’ videos on Scout’s YouTube channel.

Tom – The FPL consistency of this Deputy Editor is staggering, having finished in the top 1k on five occasions and in the top 10k a further three times.

#ad 18+

FPL Marc Broadcaster, writer and overthinker. Hoping that ‘differential potential’ will catch on.

261 Comments Login to Post a Comment
  1. Mo Mane No Problems
    • 5 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    A. Saka to Jota (Free)
    B. Vardy & Saka to Kane & Gallagher (-4)

    Current team:

    Foster, Trent, Chilwell, James, Cancelo, Livra

    Salah, Saka, Raph, Mbeumo, Brownhill

    Vardy, Antonio, Jimenez

    1. Hansel
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 15 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      A probably

    2. Peter O'Hanraha-hanrah…
      • 8 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      I had a similar team and did Saka vardy - son wilson

  2. DannyDrinkVodka
    • 6 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    Play one:

    A) Livramento
    B) Mbeumo

    1. Holmes
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Mbeumo

    2. McSauce
      • 16 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      both ideally, strong players.

      1. DannyDrinkVodka
        • 6 Years
        4 years, 20 days ago

        Already played my bench boost last week, ha!

    3. Gooner97
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Play Mbeumo or sell him

      1. DannyDrinkVodka
        • 6 Years
        4 years, 20 days ago

        Cheers, looks like this is his last rodeo

    4. Tonyawesome69
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Same dilemma and keep switching between the 2. Currently playing Mbeumo with Toney

    5. Hansel
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 15 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      A IMO

    6. Amartey Partey
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      The one who is actually scoring points.

  3. Rossaldinho
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 16 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    Dilemma: Assuming I will captain Salah v Arsenal do I play Ramsdale for the points earned from saves or use my free transfer to swap injured Raya for say Guaita? Opinions welcome

    1. Holmes
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Play Ramsdale.

    2. Miguel Sanchez
      • 9 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Play Ramsdale

    3. Gooner97
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Rams

      1. Rossaldinho
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 16 Years
        4 years, 20 days ago

        Thanks guys - play Ramsdale it is! Maybe I will find alternative captain...

    4. Tonyawesome69
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Easily play Ramsdale. It's only 1GW and I don't see the need to use FT when you already have a playing GK.

    5. Maximus Bonimus Pointimus
      • 15 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Ramsdale for his pen save from Salah

  4. Tmel
    • 14 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    Bench two:

    a) Chilwell (lei) - already have James
    b) Livra (nor)
    c) Mbuemo (new)
    d) Gallagher (bur)
    e) Hwang (WHU)
    f) Antonio (wol)

    1. Gazza2000
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 14 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      b and e

    2. Tonyawesome69
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      B&E

    3. Amartey Partey
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      CE

  5. GS456
    • 10 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    Would you sell Vardy to prioritise getting Trent?

    1. Gazza2000
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 14 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Depends on the rest of your squad but I would like to have Trent in my team

      1. GS456
        • 10 Years
        4 years, 20 days ago

        Same really, I have Son, Salah, Vardy.

        Hard to see where else to find the budget.

    2. McSauce
      • 16 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Wilson, Antonio, jesus, Hwang

      1. GS456
        • 10 Years
        4 years, 20 days ago

        Thanks

    3. Tonyawesome69
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Probaby yes but keep an eye on Robbo injury. Tsimikas could be an alternative option

      1. Hansel
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 15 Years
        4 years, 20 days ago

        This, short-term should be similar to Trent

    4. Holmes
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      I would find some other route

    5. DannyDrinkVodka
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      I would hold off until we know extent of Robertson’s injury……

    6. Old Wulfrunian
      • 9 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      no

    7. Amartey Partey
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Yes

  6. MANOMANO
    • 9 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    It's Kane vs Son, still undecided

    Ramsdale
    TAA Chilwell James Cancelo
    Salah Mbeumo* Foden
    Antonio Hwang Vardy*

    Foster Livra Raph Saka*

    2FT 0.4 ITB

    A) Saka Mbeumo Vardy to Son Wilson 4.5Mid for -4
    B) Vardy Saka to Kane 4.5Mid
    C) Saka Vardy to Son Broja and next week Mbeumo to Jota

    Thanks

    1. Hansel
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 15 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      B

    2. The Mentaculus
      • 4 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      C

  7. hustler7
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 13 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    Play Foster (MUN) or Ramsdale (LIV) this week?

    1. Gooner97
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      The former this GW imo

    2. Tonyawesome69
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Stick with your set and forget #1 GK. Look what happened when managers chose Foster ahead of Ramsdale in GW10...

    3. FourLokoLeipzig
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 7 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Has to be Foster based on the CS odds, the only caveat being what you think would be the impact if Mane is ruled out (although I think I saw that he’s training)

  8. Hansel
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 15 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    A) Havertz -> Son + 1 FT
    B) Vardy -> Kane + 0.7m ITB +1 FT
    B) Havertz/Vardy -> Jota/Kane + 1.3m ITB
    C) Havertz/Vardy -> Gallagher/Kane + 3m ITB (e.g. money to do Omo -> James)

    Sanchez Steele
    TAA Cancelo Rudiger White Omobamidele
    Salah Havertz Raphinha Mbeumo Gilmour
    Vardy Antonio Armstrong

    1. Hansel
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 15 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Sorry, A, B C, D ofc...

    2. Tonyawesome69
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      B1 or C. I would be tempted to delay the Jota transfer if Havertz looks like he will start. Lukaku back running but not sure if it is individual or group first team training

  9. upforgrabs
    • 10 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    With 2 FTs:
    Antonio -> Kane
    Raphinha -> Jota
    Yay or nay?

    1. Hansel
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 15 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Yes, gotta be some money in that bank mate! Maybe just Rap -> Son though?

      1. upforgrabs
        • 10 Years
        4 years, 20 days ago

        That's the other option, but the Kane lure is real..

    2. Tonyawesome69
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Tough one but probably yes for the fixture play

  10. Gazza2000
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 14 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    Anyone going without any Spurs players this gameweek?

    1. Holmes
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Just below this post

    2. Root
      • 14 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Yes.

      Ramsdale
      TAA Cancelo Dias James
      Salah Jota Raphinha
      Vardy Antonio Jimenez

      Foster Livramento ESR Douglas Luiz

    3. The Mentaculus
      • 4 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Have Son but I don't think any Spurs are remotely essential despite the hype.

      Nice Kane the Unicorn entry btw!

  11. FreddyP3
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 7 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    1 FT, 1.6 ITB
    Steele (Sanchez)
    TAA Cancelo James Livramento (Williams)
    Salah Raphina Gallagher (Saka Allan)
    Ronaldo Antonio Jimenez

    Pretty happy with the team overall assuming Steele gets to play.. could do Saka to Jota and play instead of Livra, or save?

  12. x.jim.x
    • 11 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    Probably asked a million times already but:

    Havertz + Vardy --> Son + Wilson or Jota + Kane ?

    Rest of team:

    Sanchez / Steele
    Trent / Cancelo / Chilwell / Livramento / Williams
    Salah / Havertz / Smith Rowe/ Raphinha / Allan
    Antonio / Vardy / Toney

  13. Philosopher's Stones
    • 5 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    Start one:

    A: Mbeumo(have Toney)
    B: Raphinha

    Captain:

    1: Salah
    2: Son

    1. Philosopher's Stones
      • 5 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Might add C: ESR as well to the poll given how the Pool players are dropping like flies

    2. Old Wulfrunian
      • 9 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      a
      1

    3. Tonyawesome69
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      B1

    4. The Mentaculus
      • 4 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      B1

  14. Gooner97
    • 12 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    Diogo Jota flew back to Liverpool immediately after his game on Sunday after team doctors detected a possible hamstring tear. He will have a scan on Wednesday.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CWWh09Fgv0p/

    1. Gooner97
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Origi bandwagon starts here.

    2. Qaiss
      • 9 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      ‘Stop international breaks’ lol

      But when TAA wasn’t included in the England squad, that same account probably bashed Southgate

    3. Hansel
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 15 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      What kind of luck does Pool have!?

    4. Root
      • 14 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Most likely fake.

    5. internal error
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      They have copied it word for word from this, which appears to be fake
      https://twitter.com/LFCMaxs/status/1460717492150718468?t=7FNrbvk3uq3LUD9Kajpuew&s=08

  15. Totti
    • 9 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    my defence
    azpi rudiger dias cancelo livramento

    1FT

    A) azpi -> james
    B) azpi -> tsimikas (if robertson is out for 4 weeks)
    C) save FT
    D) other suggestion

    1. Tonyawesome69
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      A - It has been reported Robbo has a tight hamstring rather than a strain so 50/50 for this weekend

      1. Tonyawesome69
        • 6 Years
        4 years, 20 days ago

        James Pearce - The Athletic

      2. Totti
        • 9 Years
        4 years, 20 days ago

        ok thanks mate
        but do u think azpi's role has been finished?

        1. Tonyawesome69
          • 6 Years
          4 years, 20 days ago

          Azpi isn't first choice imo. Christensen and Chalobah can play RCB and James at RWB. Difficult to predict his starts now

          1. Tonyawesome69
            • 6 Years
            4 years, 20 days ago

            I guess the caveat is he was injured over the last few GWs

    2. The Mentaculus
      • 4 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      A.

      I never thought Azpi was a good pick. He's not "finished" at all but will prob feature on right side of back 3 more often than wing back

      1. Totti
        • 9 Years
        4 years, 20 days ago

        ok
        thanka mate

    3. ebb2sparky
      • 15 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      D - Azpi to Chilwell

      1. Totti
        • 9 Years
        4 years, 20 days ago

        why not james?

  16. Iceball
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 11 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    Going forward
    A) White Toney
    B) James Pukki
    If A the White mostly on bench, if B Pukki mostly on bench or rotate with Mbuemo

    1. Tonyawesome69
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Easy B

    2. KLOPPS AND ROBBERS... the s…
      • 10 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      B

  17. Rossaldinho
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 16 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    Bench Order: Smith Rowe before Vardy? Yes or No

    1. Tonyawesome69
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      No

    2. Qaiss
      • 9 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Depends how you see the matches going and which one of Leicester or Arsenal are more likely to score.

      1. Rossaldinho
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 16 Years
        4 years, 20 days ago

        I think it is possible that Arsenal score against Liverpool and that Smith-Rowe may be involved but not so confident that if Leicester do manage to score v Chelsea that Vardy will be involved...though he is on penalties of course!

    3. _Ninja_
      • 15 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Bench ESR with Vardy on pens.

      1. Rossaldinho
        • Fantasy Football Scout Member
        • 16 Years
        4 years, 20 days ago

        That's the sensible view, yes

    4. The Mentaculus
      • 4 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      I'll prob be outvoted but would pick ESR. Feel like Liv Ars will be close with both sides scoring; Lei will be lucky to pinch 1

    5. Amartey Partey
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 19 days ago

      Smith Rowe has a good chance of scoring IMO.

  18. DannyDrinkVodka
    • 6 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    Wow, the Jota news is a kick in the balls for those who have already transferred him in

    1. Qaiss
      • 9 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      What news is it? It hasn’t been confirmed by anyone reliable.

      1. DannyDrinkVodka
        • 6 Years
        4 years, 20 days ago

        I got punk’d

        1. Qaiss
          • 9 Years
          4 years, 20 days ago

          Mhm

  19. Atimis
    • 9 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    Wanna keep FT now and thoughts on the moves before GW13?

    Duffy Havertz Toney to TAA Gallagher Hwang -4

    Rambo/Foster
    Cancelo/Chilwell/James/Livra/Duffy
    Salah/Son/Havertz/Raph/Mbeumo
    Vardy/Toney/4.4

    1. Apwilkin
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      I like it. Plan to play 1 striker when wolves fixtures turn? Or plan to move hwang to Wilson or something?

      1. Atimis
        • 9 Years
        4 years, 19 days ago

        Yeah would play 451

  20. kellamergh
    • 6 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    Have in invested too much defence?
    Should I free up funds to bolster mid/front?

    Cancelo TAA Chilwell Livramento James
    ESR Raphinha Salah Son
    Vardy

    Foster Toney Mbeumo Davis

    1. Tonyawesome69
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      No and no

      1. KLOPPS AND ROBBERS... the s…
        • 10 Years
        4 years, 20 days ago

        this

        1. kellamergh
          • 6 Years
          4 years, 20 days ago

          Cheers, guys. I'll save my transfer, then.

    2. The Mentaculus
      • 4 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Nah, lovely team structure

  21. DannyDrinkVodka
    • 6 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    Jesus celebration in December? Looking for a Jimenez replacement after Norwich

    1. Holmes
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Its Wood time

    2. Iceball
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 11 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Pukki party is starting

  22. BrockLanders
    • 10 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    Andy Robertson currently rated as 50-50 for Saturday's clash with Arsenal at Anfield. Tightness in his hamstring rather than a strain. @JamesPearce

    1. Atimis
      • 9 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Tsim train over.

    2. Gooner97
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Benjamin Newman
      @b_nooman
      Liverpool. It looks likely that Andy Robertson will miss the Arsenal game

      Times: "Liverpool do not think the injury is serious but will take no chances with the left back who has been challenged by Kostas Tsimikas this season."

      1. Tonyawesome69
        • 6 Years
        4 years, 20 days ago

        Exactly this. Tsimikas has shown he is more than capable replacement for Robbo so far this season

  23. KLOPPS AND ROBBERS... the s…
    • 10 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    4th Mid spot? Gray is going

    a) ESR
    b) Gallagher
    c) Jota

    Front 8
    Salah, Raphinha, Foden, Gray, Gilmour
    Vardy, Antonio, Hwang

    1. Gooner97
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      A

    2. Tonyawesome69
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      ESR - still a bit concerned when Gallagher plays alongside Mil and Eze close to starting so not sure how Gallagher's role will change

      1. Tonyawesome69
        • 6 Years
        4 years, 20 days ago

        Actually that should be Jota instead of ESR. Hard to ignore OOP mid that plays for Liverpool

    3. cheeky moses
      • 10 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      coin toss between A and B. Think I prefer B

    4. ebb2sparky
      • 15 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      C looks better from a short term perspective but also depends on where that extra 1.7 would’ve been invested.
      I think A and B are very close. Probably B just ahead of A

  24. cheeky moses
    • 10 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    Start one:
    A) Azpi
    B) Vardy
    C) Raphina

    1. Gooner97
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      B

    2. Tonyawesome69
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      C

  25. Maximus Bonimus Pointimus
    • 15 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    Jota Hamstrung 😆

    1. The Mentaculus
      • 4 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Got a decent source for that yet?

  26. Hy liverpool
    • 12 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    Can we sign Raphinha now please.

    1. internal error
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      this. Although he is probably going to be too expensive for us

      1. Hy liverpool
        • 12 Years
        4 years, 20 days ago

        Him and another midfielder who can be fit for more than a month without injuries would be awesome.. Bissouma/Barella/Kessie would be my picks but i know we will end signing a championship player + starting milner.

  27. winchester
    • 5 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    Have 1.1m itb and 1ft. What would the best move be here lads? Did mbeumo->gallagher yesterday.
    Cheers. GTG or?

    ramsdale
    taa - cancelo - james
    salah - raphinha - gallagher - son
    antonio - vardy - hwang

    (foster - livramento - duffy - luiz)

    A) raph -> jota
    B) vardy -> wilson?
    C) something else?

    1. Apwilkin
      • 6 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      I like B

      1. winchester
        • 5 Years
        4 years, 19 days ago

        cheers. or would rolling the other ft be wise?

  28. HaffNanner
    • 8 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    Has anyone else not learned their lesson and starting Foster over Ramsdale again?

    1. Holmes
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      I wouldnt bother. Its not like Foster has an easy game.

      1. HaffNanner
        • 8 Years
        4 years, 20 days ago

        It's just the Salah captaincy factor that's weighing on my mind. Will prob just go with Ramsdale though.

      2. Amartey Partey
        • 6 Years
        4 years, 19 days ago

        Debatable

    2. Gooner97
      • 12 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      Starting Foster only because Sanchez is suspended

  29. Apwilkin
    • 6 Years
    4 years, 20 days ago

    Ramsdale (Foster)

    Cancelo-Chilwell-Christensen
    Foden-Salah-Havertz-Son
    Jimmy-Antonio-Toney

    Livra-Dias-Luiz
    1FT 0.3 ITB

    1)Save FT
    2)Downgrade Dias this week so i can upgrade Christensen to TAA or James next week
    3)Toney to Pukki or bench fodder for later upgrades.
    4) Other?

    1. Root
      • 14 Years
      4 years, 20 days ago

      What's the reasoning behind benching Dias?

      1. Apwilkin
        • 6 Years
        4 years, 20 days ago

        Figured Everton have a decent chance to get one by city. But I guess Everton is probably less likely to score than Leicester against Chelsea or Norwich against Southampton… Figure it should be Christensen and Livra on the bench instead?