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Dugout Discussion November 20

Liverpool v Arsenal team news: Tsimikas starts as Robertson misses out

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Seven down, one to go: the final Premier League match of the day sees Liverpool play host to Arsenal at a rain-soaked Anfield.

Kick-off on Merseyside is at 17:30 GMT.

The Reds scored three goals home and away against Arsenal last season and have found the net on 28 occasions in their last eight home league meetings with the Gunners.

Mohamed Salah personally has six goals and four assists in eight fixtures against Arsenal since joining Liverpool in 2017, averaging 8.13 points per match.

The Egyptian is part of an unchanged front three this evening, taking his place alongside Diogo Jota and Sadio Mane.

Jurgen Klopp has been forced into two alterations elsewhere, however, with captain Jordan Henderson only fit enough to make the bench and Andrew Robertson absent entirely.

Thiago Alcantara and Konstantinos Tsimikas come in to replace them.

Mikel Arteta’s only change from the 1-0 win over Watford in Gameweek 11 is a predictable one: Thomas Partey returns from a muscle injury at the expense of Ainsley Maitland-Niles.

Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang is also fit enough to feature despite some cryptic comments from his manager in Friday’s pre-match press conference.

GAMEWEEK 12 LINE-UPS

Liverpool XI: Alisson, Alexander-Arnold, Matip, Van Dijk, Tsimikas, Thiago, Fabinho, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Salah, Jota, Mane.

Subs: Kelleher, Konate, Beck, Bradley, Phillips, Morton, Henderson, Minamino, Gordon.

Arsenal XI: Ramsdale, Tomiyasu, White, Gabriel, Tavares, Saka, Sambi Lokonga, Partey, Smith Rowe, Lacazette, Aubameyang.

Subs: Leno, Tierney, Cedric Soares, Holding, Elneny, Maitland-Niles, Pepe, Odegaard, Martinelli.

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1,751 Comments Post a Comment
  1. PartyTime
    • 2 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    Mbeumo crossbar challenge on for next gameweek. Owners should keep

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    1. SouthCoastSaint
      • 12 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Yet more disallowed Mbeumo points today.

      Getting him over Gallagher has been painful

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    2. FCSB
      • 8 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      What happened, only seen 3 min highlights and nothing from him

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  2. dunas_dog
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 8 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    Klopp saying Jota got real knock and hopes nothing serious

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  3. TheSteel
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 11 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    Hoping for a Raphinha no show. Benched Jimenez.

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    1. SouthCoastSaint
      • 12 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Fellow subber.

      Got Dias and raphina so it wouldn’t be crazy to get lucky

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    2. Babit1967
      • 8 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Same

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  4. Lucky Z
    • 6 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    Bottomed...

    Which one with 2 FTs?

    A. White + Ronaldo => TAA + Jesus
    B. White + Ronaldo + Gray => TAA + Dennis + Jota -4 (allows me to do Vardy => Kane)
    C. Rudiger + Ronaldo + Gray => TAA + Dennis + Son -4

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    1. Gold Monster
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 13 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      B

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  5. DBW - Slug's Mortgage …
    • 3 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    Think I’m selling both Antonio and Ronaldo by next week.

    Kane and Jesus or Kane and Auba?

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    1. SouthCoastSaint
      • 12 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Would hold ronaldo if I owned

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      1. Lucky Z
        • 6 Years
        2 years, 5 months ago

        Why? Can be good once OGS is sacked only

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      2. Qaiss
        • 8 Years
        2 years, 5 months ago

        With their fixtures coming up, Kane/Vardy are better options.

        Also unsure Ronaldo will play every game in the PL, as they need results in the CL.

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  6. Lord of Ings
    • 8 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    Both not really great options but if you had to pick 1..
    A)pukki
    B)Hwang

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    1. Stranger Mings
      • 3 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      A

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  7. Rainer
    • 7 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    Jota getting a flag, should rest vs Porto midweek...

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    1. pundit of punts
      • 11 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      And I won’t need to rush him in as his price won’t move

      Great

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  8. pundit of punts
    • 11 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    Repost

    Armstrong + Mbeumo ➡ Jota + Locadia for -4 sounds good? Gives me -

    Ramsdale
    TAA - Cancelo - James
    Salah - Son - Foden - Jota - ESR
    Vardy - Hwang

    Foster - Livramento - Locadia - Manquillo

    Leaves me enough in the bank to do Vardy ➡ Lukaku in gw 14.

    Thoughts? 🙂

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    1. The Pesci challenge
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Yep

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  9. DA Minnion (Former great)
    • 11 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    Owning Sarr today was a real rollercoaster.

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  10. Pukki Party
    • 6 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    Would you wc to get James+Chilwell basicly?

    Guaita
    TAA Cancelo Cresswell Rudiger
    Salah Jota Raphinha Grealish*
    Antonio Jesus

    Foster Mbeumo Davis Lowton

    Thinking the defenders are the only thing we are pretty sure will last for a while (taa, cancelo and chelsea wingbacks). Would bring Son in over ManCity guys too.

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    1. Green Arrow
      • 12 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Yes. Watching them play and not owning them is scary.

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  11. SouthCoastSaint
    • 12 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    Mbeumo to Gallagher or Jota?

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    1. pundit of punts
      • 11 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Jota

      Not even a contest

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      1. SouthCoastSaint
        • 12 Years
        2 years, 5 months ago

        Jota just feels like a raphina in terms of limited ceiling . Ticks over but not on pens, set pieces and gets random benchings. Firmino injury not as bad as first feared possibly

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        1. Bennerman
          • 5 Years
          2 years, 5 months ago

          What's his ceiling then, and what's the mathematical formula?

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        2. JONALDINHO
          • 6 Years
          2 years, 5 months ago

          Are you saying Conor Gallagher a midfielder for Palace has a higher ceiling than Jota a striker for Liverpool?

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          1. Bennerman
            • 5 Years
            2 years, 5 months ago

            No, I'm questioning the idea of ceilings.

            A certain number of pints that a given player can score, and no more.

            It's a fallacy.

            Oh right, you're talking to him.

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            1. SouthCoastSaint
              • 12 Years
              2 years, 5 months ago

              I get your point but look at the evidence.

              Jota regularly subbed early and never features in bonus.

              If milo stays off the pitch, Gallagher has extra chance at set pieces, plays almost a number 10 role and is clinical.

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              1. Bennerman
                • 5 Years
                2 years, 5 months ago

                While all you say is fair context, there is still no ceiling. It's a myth – or, the concept is actually just misappropriated here – that a given player can only score up to a certain number, ergo his 'ceiling'.

                I totally get what you're saying, apart from the fact anyone has a ceiling as such

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                1. Bennerman
                  • 5 Years
                  2 years, 5 months ago

                  Or hag on, I might have answered myself again. Great days

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                2. SouthCoastSaint
                  • 12 Years
                  2 years, 5 months ago

                  I agree that “ceilings” are a complete myth but I think the points I’ve mentioned show that early subbings do have an impact on points potential

                  Wrong phrase I’ve used maybe!

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                  1. Bennerman
                    • 5 Years
                    2 years, 5 months ago

                    I agree with that, my angle is purely on the 'ceiling' concept.

                    I'm being very dogmatic, excuse me. I'm not questioning your overall methodology at all. That's part of my point, I suppose.

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                    1. SouthCoastSaint
                      • 12 Years
                      2 years, 5 months ago

                      Don’t mind the chat about it! All the best with your season !

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                      1. Bennerman
                        • 5 Years
                        2 years, 5 months ago

                        And yourself, good to have a bit of grown-up talk without the other rubbish on here.
                        Good luck

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          2. SouthCoastSaint
            • 12 Years
            2 years, 5 months ago

            3 double digit hauls vs 1 in Gallaghers favour.

            And better upcoming fixtures with no Firmino benching headaches

            The stats don’t lie. Jota is incredibly wasteful

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          3. Sun Jihai
            • Fantasy Football Scout Member
            • 12 Years
            2 years, 5 months ago

            To be fair Gallagher has scored 15, 13 and 11 in three games this season. Jota has had one double digit haul (11) and only one last season too (12).

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        3. pundit of punts
          • 11 Years
          2 years, 5 months ago

          Looks like first choice anyway

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    2. Gross Blank Point
      • 3 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Bernard Silva or Jota are my choice of who I swap him for.

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  12. DA Minnion (Former great)
    • 11 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    Jurgen klopp has too many teeth for his mouth.

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    1. el polako
      • 6 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Arteta was willing to help with that tonight.

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  13. Ginkapo FPL
    • 12 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    How long does it take to sack a manager?

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    1. The Pesci challenge
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      The board are working out the compo tonight and getting zidane in

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    2. Bennerman
      • 5 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      As long as it takes to have someone else ready to step in, at least temporarily, to have the lawyers sign off all the legal stuff, and to get the PR side of it ready and shored up.

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    3. Hairy Potter
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Getting to Steve Kean and Steve Bruce deadman walking levels?

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    4. Green Arrow
      • 12 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Depends. Watford? Minutes. United? Forever.

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  14. Abra Dubravka
    • 5 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    Gray to:

    A) ESR
    B) Gallagher ?

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    1. The Pesci challenge
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Like both but B for me

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    2. SouthCoastSaint
      • 12 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Gallagher all day

      Smith Rowe been over performing

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  15. The Pesci challenge
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 9 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    Who to get rid of benrahma for, £6.5mill max?

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  16. dshv
    • 6 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    52 pts with foden cancelo kane raphinha to go.. maybe will not go into 10k …

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    1. The Pesci challenge
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Never know

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  17. Henning
    • 9 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    Duffy and Foden to TAA and Hojbjerg for free?
    or can you see any other way to get TAA in to the team?

    Steel Sanchez
    Cancelo James Livramento Coady Duffy
    Raphinha Son Salah Mbeumo Foden
    Vardy Antonio Hwang

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    1. Green Arrow
      • 12 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Downgrade Vardy maybe?

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      1. Henning
        • 9 Years
        2 years, 5 months ago

        Duffy to TAA and Vardy to a 7.3 attacker?

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        1. Green Arrow
          • 12 Years
          2 years, 5 months ago

          That would be my choice. None of the premium attackers are performing anyway. Maybe Toney or Benteke.

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          1. Henning
            • 9 Years
            2 years, 5 months ago

            Thanx.

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  18. Atimis
    • 7 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    Livra Havertz to TAA Gallagher? Probably my best bet?

    Could have BSilva or other 7.1mid instead of Gallagher if I take a hit and get rid of Mbeumo.

    Rambo/Foster
    Cancelo/Chilwell/James/Livra/Duffy
    Salah/Son/Havertz/Raph/Mbeumo
    Vardy/Toney/4.4

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    1. Atimis
      • 7 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Or ESR instead of Gallagher?

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      1. antis0cial
        • 8 Years
        2 years, 5 months ago

        I think your original choice is probably best.

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        1. Atimis
          • 7 Years
          2 years, 5 months ago

          Cheers

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  19. Il Capitano
    • 3 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    2FT 0 ITB

    Guaita
    TAA Cancelo Chilwell
    Salah Son Raph Mbeumo
    Vardy Antonio Toney

    Foster - White Livramento Brownhill

    Original thinking was Toney + Mbeumo to Hwang + Gallagher, but maybe I could downgrade a forward to get Jota/James for Mbeumo/White/Livra?

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    1. antis0cial
      • 8 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      I’d be looking for a way to get James in, fpl gold

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      1. Il Capitano
        • 3 Years
        2 years, 5 months ago

        You're right, he's killing me every week. You think Toney to fodder or Antonio to a 6m-ish playing striker is worth it to bring him in?

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        1. antis0cial
          • 8 Years
          2 years, 5 months ago

          I wouldn't want too much fodder on bench leading into Christmas fixture congestion. So maybe Antonio or think about downgrading Vardy. James has 4 double digit hauls in 5 starts...

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          1. Il Capitano
            • 3 Years
            2 years, 5 months ago

            Yeah, Livramento, Brownhill and Davis is probably a touch too light a bench.

            Would like to give Vardy the Watford game at the very least before moving him on. I'd probably want to ship a Brentford player if I can next week, something like Antonio, Mbeumo + White to Pukki/Hwang/Watford fwd, Gallagher and James (-4) is just about within budget.

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  20. Green Arrow
    • 12 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    Vardy has single handedly been making sure I don't get into the top 10k for the past 4 weeks.

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    1. The Pesci challenge
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      I know that feeling, that’s why I took a hit just to get him out for kane

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      1. Green Arrow
        • 12 Years
        2 years, 5 months ago

        Might have to do that next week. Wasn't convinced with Spurs' performance against Everton. Let's see how they do against Leeds.

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    2. Qaiss
      • 8 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Feel the same with Ronaldo who I wildcarded in GW5.

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      1. Green Arrow
        • 12 Years
        2 years, 5 months ago

        Everyone blaming Ole, but Ronaldo missed so many good chances today.

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        1. Qaiss
          • 8 Years
          2 years, 5 months ago

          Well Ole isn’t good enough but nor are so many of the players. Maguire, Wan Bissaka being bought for 130m is a joke. That is the underlying problem with United.

          Yeah, I captained Ronaldo today. He should have got a brace minimum. Really disappointed.

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    3. Il Capitano
      • 3 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      It's been an agonizingly slow decline for my rank with Vardy, 2x Brentford and benching Livra meaning I've had small red arrows every week since GW6

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      1. Green Arrow
        • 12 Years
        2 years, 5 months ago

        Livramento was my first transfer in of the season at 4.0. Started playing him from GW6. He's been my main man ever since.

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  21. Totalfootball
    • 7 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    Who looked better -
    Dennis or King?

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    1. antis0cial
      • 8 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Dennis

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    2. Stranger Mings
      • 3 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Like both but Watford next fixtures hard

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  22. FCSB
    • 8 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    57 with Cancelo Foden Raphinha Son to play, is that an OK position to be in?

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    1. JONALDINHO
      • 6 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Yes. 50 here with Cancelo, Dias, Foden and Son. No Chelsea defence absolutely killed me

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  23. Flynny
    • 9 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    Hi.....would you make this move please? Exact cash. Obviously do this after midweek games if not priced out

    Mbeumo and Antonio to jota and pukki - 4

    Ramsdale
    Taa cancelo dias james (livra)
    Salah foden raphinha mbeumo (normann)
    Kane King (antonio)

    Thanks

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    1. Bennerman
      • 5 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      I probably... wouldn't. Had to think, though, it was close in my mind. I might say yes on another day.

      Realise that's not much help.

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      1. Flynny
        • 9 Years
        2 years, 5 months ago

        Cheers....not sure I fancy antonio out for a hit tbh....

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        1. Bennerman
          • 5 Years
          2 years, 5 months ago

          That was my main sticking point too

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  24. Steve The Spud
    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
    • 4 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    Ole apparently staying, board can see the project

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    1. Scots Gooner
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 7 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Hopefully true. He deserves more timeb

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      1. Bennerman
        • 5 Years
        2 years, 5 months ago

        Like Arteta, who has taken 100 games to get Arsenal to eight in the league twice

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        1. Bennerman
          • 5 Years
          2 years, 5 months ago

          FA Cup win, fair shout

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          1. Scots Gooner
            • Fantasy Football Scout Member
            • 7 Years
            2 years, 5 months ago

            Huh? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make?

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            1. Bennerman
              • 5 Years
              2 years, 5 months ago

              On the assumption you were being sarcastic about Ole deserving more time (might be wrong?) I was making the point that Arteta has had a lot of time himself, but actually not really delivered much, but gets a pretty easy ride from pundits (generally speaking). That was intended to be the inference, anyway

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              1. Scots Gooner
                • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                • 7 Years
                2 years, 5 months ago

                Ah. Well, I was being sarcastic.

                I don't think Ole/Arteta nor Man U/Arsenal are completely fair comparisons.

                Arsenal seem to be taking a longer approach to their squad rebuild, prioritising youth and potential to get back to a European place.

                United just signed Sancho, Varane and Christiano F'N Ronaldo. I'm assuming their goals are above challenging for Top 6/Top 4? They're massively underachieving any ambitions they had for this season and a majority of that lies at the feet of the hapless manager in charge.

                As someone who has been Arteta out for the majority of his tenure at Arsenal, I too wonder how he gets little media backlash or pressure, but the teams are miles apart with different goals. Also, as you say, Arteta has won a trophy.

                Ole has overseen one embarrassment after another this season. Done little over his previous seasons to warrant any faith in his ability. But, somehow clings onto his job despite all evidence being he's completely clueless.

                It's incredible flaccid inaction from United's board.

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                1. Bennerman
                  • 5 Years
                  2 years, 5 months ago

                  Agree with a fair amount you say there. I like a lot of the young Arsenal lads, and agree with the philosophy of finding and cultivating young players, United have good history and pedigree in the same (unlike, say, the Chelsea model).

                  My main point is the way they are judged by the media, and ergo every second bloke down the pub/bloke on here. Because Arteta was with Guardiola, I think largely, he has had remarkably little questioning. United's squad is very young too (certainly was in last two years, before Ronaldo age brought up the average), plus we play plenty of youth products. Fact is, without FA Cup then Arteta has not gone anywhere, but he's being let off without the concomitant heat applied to others.

                  Massively underachieving and massively cack for United this season, absolutely undeniable.

                  Previous seasons, you have to say has been progress, look at the league positions. This is part of the point, Arteta hasn't delivered that tangible progress that can be measured by a league table (which is a pretty fair measure, given ever team plays each other over the course of most of a year).

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                  1. Scots Gooner
                    • Fantasy Football Scout Member
                    • 7 Years
                    2 years, 5 months ago

                    You're right Arteta does seem to get an easy ride from the media, as some kind of Pep-protege. It is totally undeserved.

                    Can't argue he hasn't improved the team via league position, although this season he might.

                    Hopefully Arsenal and United can both sort their respective messes out and fight for the title again.

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                    1. Bennerman
                      • 5 Years
                      2 years, 5 months ago

                      He might this season, yeah, I'd guess that he probably will.

                      Will see you back up at the sharp end of the table some time...

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  25. leocarter27
    • 9 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    Have the exact funds to do Rudiger and Mbeumo out for James and Gallagher (-4). Would you do it? Thanks

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  26. Lord of Ings
    • 8 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    If you had to get either who would you get?
    A)Pukki
    B)Hwang

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    1. dunas_dog
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 8 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Pukki

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    2. Botman and Robben
      • 7 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      A

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  27. antis0cial
    • 8 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    Early thoughts, Havertz and benrahma need to go? Thinking Havertz to Jota which leaves 7.4 to replace benrahma. 2ft 0.6 itb. Thoughts?

    Ramsdale
    TAA Cancelo James Chilwell
    Salah Foden Havertz* Raph
    Jimenez Toney

    Foster Antonio Livramento Benrahma*

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    1. Atimis
      • 7 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Defo get Jota!

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    2. The Pesci challenge
      • Fantasy Football Scout Member
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Gallagher, ESR, cornet or trossard?

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      1. antis0cial
        • 8 Years
        2 years, 5 months ago

        Thanks, all good options. I'd probably lean towards Gallagher I think, problem is I'd be benching him heh

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  28. ZeBestee
    • 9 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    my back 3 (exc Dias) scored more points than the other entire team combined inc the subs.

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  29. CrouchDown
    • 11 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    Mbeumo > Gallagher ?

    Ramsdale

    TAA Cancelo James

    Salah Son ESR Mbeumo

    Kane Antonio Hwang

    Subs: Guaita, Duffy Livra Brownhill

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    1. ZeBestee
      • 9 Years
      2 years, 5 months ago

      Yes will do it.

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  30. Botman and Robben
    • 7 Years
    2 years, 5 months ago

    Roll FT?

    Guaita
    TAA Cancelo James
    Salah Son Foden Gallagher Jota
    Antonio Wilson

    Carson White Livramento Davis

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